Iron Cross

Ritterton · 14 November 2009, 02:58 PM

LUFTSCHIFFER EK 2 ( 800 ), Urkunde FLA 12 Ballonzug 34 bei eBay.de: 1871-1918 (endet 18.11.09 17:07:07 MEZ)

First, I am not bidding on this nor selling it. Rather, my good friend Airship Harry sent me the link due to my interest in balloons from both sides of the war.

Second, I am also familiar with the Iron Cross and why it was awarded. However, what caught my attention in this was the "citation" that accompanied this IC. It has me asking a few questions that I really don't know anything about. Now, I was in the USAF and so I am familiar with a medal, a medal citation, and a medal nomination...with that in mind let me ask a few IC newbie like questions:

1. This was awarded in the field, near the end of the War - but would this be called the Citation?

2. There is a number 16070 - would that be indicating that this is the 16,070 IC awarded? Army wide? Nation wide? Or is this number meaning something else?

3. Is an IC citation like this "traceable" back to the incident for which it was awarded? Meaning, can a person trace the citation back to the medal nomination? If so, is that something that is a record by record unit based search? National level search?

Again, not bidding nor selling. But, I do a lot of genealogical research and historical military research (German US Civil War Regiment, etc.). I am familiar with the record keeping aspect of the military and was just suddenly curious.

Thanks in advance. Oh, and I think I have a few new airplane photos to put up on the forum too....

jaba-the-hunt · 15 November 2009, 02:01 AM

Hi Ritterton.

Quote:

1. This was awarded in the field, near the end of the War - but would this be called the Citation?

Ussualy there was no Citation for the award.

Quote:

2. There is a number 16070 - would that be indicating that this is the 16,070 IC awarded? Army wide? Nation wide? Or is this number meaning something else?

There was over 1.000.000 IC2 awarded in WW1. The number has another meaning.

Quote:

3. Is an IC citation like this "traceable" back to the incident for which it was awarded? Meaning, can a person trace the citation back to the medal nomination? If so, is that something that is a record by record unit based search? National level search?

Not possible. There are no lists of IC awarded during WW1.

Regards Alex

Ritterton · 15 November 2009, 08:43 AM

Thanks Alex. I seemed to recall the large number of awards. So that makes sense that they could not be easily traced. Thanks for the answers. Much appreciated.

jaba-the-hunt · 15 November 2009, 09:14 AM

There are partially IC1 award listed but no list of all IC1 awarded.

Regards Alex

Catfish · 18 November 2009, 05:54 AM

Hello Ritterton,

i had some conversation with Harry, and he knew about this. So this here is not my knowledge, i am but the translator, and not very good in it

But it's interesting, and i again learned a lot .. My comments are placed in brackets, like [...].

From Harry:

"... there were always documents belonging to the Iron Crosses (and with all other medals, and decorations). In the field the soldier often received a so-called provisional document of ownership. There also was a honourable citation in the Army Report of the OHL (appx. "Supreme Army Conduct"), but it was not a written one, given directly to the soldier, this only happened later, in WW2.
The Iron Cross was awarded, no one was nominated - which is based on the fact that the IC of WW1 was not a medal, but a decoration of valour or gallantry, a decoration of honour (Iron Cross - Knight Order - Pour le Mérite).

Usually the commanding officer made a proposal of someone to be decorated, and submitted this proposal to the General Command. If they agreed, the decoration was being awarded, in the name of the Kaiser.
The "Pour le Mérite" was only awarded by the Kaiser himself, in person. It was also he who had the final word to it. So no one was nominated, it was a mere proposal, to which the appropriate staff in charge could comply, or not.

There is also a peculiarity which was usual at least until the end of WW1: People were elected (sic!) to be an officer, and they were only nominated, or promoted, later. This is one of the reasons why there were so few jews being promoted for officers. Kaiser William 2nd was once asked why there were so few jews in his officer's corps, and he answered that he could not order his officers, whom to elect.

This also explains why some promotions went smooth and easy, while others did not get on at all. It just depended upon the officers of a regiment. A soldier who once had won the sympathy and admiration of his comrades, had an easier time. [Not that jews did not have this, but the reason is in the next passage]

Especially evangelic ["reformed" in english? anyway not jewish, or catholic] (prussian) officers often indulged in the anti-semitic theses of some Adolf Stoecker (who was close to the Kaiser) and others, which spoiled the atmosphere in the officer's casinos in a gloomy way. This is why it was sometimes easier in catholic-dominated parts of the country, like Bavaria, for jewish officer candidates to succeed. Pride of place was a thoroughly widespread flaw, in officer's circles of the time. This is why jews could mostly only rise to the ranks of an officer of the reserve (if they did not convert to christianity, that is).

So the officer's circle had to elect someone to be an officer, and only after this election the outcome was passed on ... to the sovereign or (in the navy) the Kaiser, who then gave out the commission, which guaranteed the aspirant his new status as an officer.
This procedure finally became obsolete by the attainment of the "Wehrhoheit" in 1935, [making the whole promotion and nomination more "democratic" in a way]. E.g. the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross could now be awarded to any soldier - in contrast to e.g. the prusssian "Pour le Mérite" of WW1, which would only be awarded to officers, not common soldiers. ..."

Now to the "Ausweis", or provisional document, for a decoration.

" ... "Ausweis" or Credentials is not completely wrong [apart from the meaning of the words that have slightly changed]. With it, the soldier was able to prove that he rightly carried a certain award. It did happen, if seldomly, that soldiers returning from the frontlines showed off awards they never had been decorated with, at home.

Additionally this provisional document was used, because in the action of a battle at the front there was no company's real bureaucratic action possible, or only with some delays. Decorations happened spontaneously, and fast (in contrast to today). And among other reasons this was done because a decorated soldier would probably not survive the next day. It often happened that in a battle a commanding officer gave his own decoration to a soldier, who would then feel especially honoured.
In many cases the allowance for a decoration by the general command came by telephone, so the commanding officer then reached for the drawer and took out the appropriate Iron Cross, which was then immediately attached to the soldier's uniform.
The company`s staff sergeant (coll. "Spiess", in german) then gave the provisional credentials, to the soldier. The real certificate would arrive maybe weeks later ... and the soldier often sent this home to his beloved ... so as to it would not get lost in the action of the battle.

B.t.w. in the german army, as in those of the british and US, there was a special police behind the frontlines [to catch stragglers or deserters, and often immediately execute them - "Kettenhunde" or chain dogs, in german - so much for the voluntarily enlisted], who controlled not only possible illegal abidance, but also the ranks and the right to wear certain decorations, or medals.

Medals or decorations were also written down in the soldier's paybook (which was usally carried all the time) .. if the "Spiess" (company's staff sergeant) had been already able to fill it out ... for the period of transition those provisional credentials were used. ..."

Ritterton, you asked this (with Harry's answers directly below):

" ... 1. This was awarded in the field, near the end of the War - but would this be called the Citation? ..."

No, provisional credentials were only awarded in the field, this was not the official citation.

" ... 2. There is a number 16070 - would that be indicating that this is the 16,070 IC awarded? Army wide? Nation wide? Or is this number meaning something else? .."

No, the number is the record token or file number of the general command, under which the decoration is being filed bureaucratically.

" ... 3. Is an IC citation like this "traceable" back to the incident for which it was awarded? Meaning, can a person trace the citation back to the medal nomination? If so, is that something that is a record by record unit based search? National level search? ..."

Yes, like stated above. There exists an administration or management entry (this "german thoroughness", or Bureaucracy) ..."

[Regarding the last question, this would only be possible if those files indeed survived the war, but as i know lots of files and material had been burned or destroyed, intentionally or not, by Germany itself, or the Entente, after the war. Some may still be locked away somewhere. So even if it would be theoretically possible to trace back those provisional credentials, it would be at least difficult - if possible at all. But this is my (Catfish/Kai) personal opinion.]

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Ritterton · 18 November 2009, 06:54 AM

Good morning Catfish. Luftschiff Harry sent me this in German and I was trying to work through it all as it is not my primary language and while I can get most of it, I have to have the ability to concentrate on it. That hasnt happened in these past few days. SO, a huge thank you for providing this translation. Really appreciate it.

The idea of electing officers was the case also in the United States, but it really ended in the later 1800s. Many civil war units had junior officers that were elected by the ranks, others were given their commissions in association with helping to raise the regiment or parts thereof.

Really appreciate this. Harry also sent me a great link showing some examples of these provisional documents. Very interesting to see the remarkable differences in those.

Thanks again.