Re: Badge identification

chesterpiglet · 10 June 2012, 06:31 AM

Hi there
Could anybody please assist with identifying these 2 badges I found today. The Iron Cross is nickel plated and I thought they were all made from Silver frames with an iron core(this does have a seam that runs right the way around the edge). There are no identification marks on it anywhere. It is quite dished as well. The other came with a WWI French Dog tag(search revealed he wasn't an Aviator), it has a makers mark of FIX in a circle. Any help, suggestions or comments would be greatfully received.
Regards Rob

VtwinVince · 10 June 2012, 01:37 PM

A couple of nice pieces. I can't comment on the wings, but the EK1 is most likely a private purchase variant, hence the vaulting and screwback attachment. Most awarded pieces were flat. Too bad it's missing the screw plate, but still a nice piece.

wingandprop · 10 June 2012, 04:52 PM

The French eagle was manufactured by Bijou Fix as a piece of costume jewelry. It was adopted by French pilots as an entirely unofficial wing prior to the creation of the wreathed wing which still serves as the French pilot wing to this day. Originally, French pilots were distinguished only by their collar badges, a winged star you will see on nearly all pictures of French pilots. This was not viewed as very distinctive in an Army in which all French officers and many other ranks had an insignia of one sort or another on their collar tabs. While French pilots also wore large wing and prop armbands, those were shared with all aircrew, and the pilots were apparently a bit envious of the British wings and the German pilots' badge, each of which were much more readily noticeable and distinctive than were the French collar tabs. The Bijou Fix pins were sold in Paris as costume jewelry and were noticed by pilots on leave who adopted them as the wing badge they didn't have and there are many pictures of French pilots wearing them on or above their tunic pockets. Their popularity, in turn, lead to a variety of copies and variations. They also probably contributed to the development of an authorized French pilots' badge. The fact that these are very common on eBay leads me to suspect they are heavily copied, but their large numbers may also be attributable to the fact that they truly were manufactured by the thousands for anyone who wanted one as a distinctive bit of inexpensive jewelry, presumably both before and after the war. They are well sculpted and make pretty, if somewhat martial, pins. I do not know how to tell between a copy, assuming that's what they are, and an original. I wouldn't be too surprised to find they are still making them and are using the original dies. The version you have is among the less common in having the hook at the bottom of the badge. The hook was supposedly intended to help secure the wing to the pocket flap.

chesterpiglet · 10 June 2012, 10:14 PM

Hi there
MANY THANKS for both answers. They both came in a box of mixed stuff mainly French but some German bits too including a ribbon bar with a ribbon on it for the 1936 Olympics. A load of French Marine Paratropers badges and lanyards. There was a really nice french WWI Grenade that had been made into a lamp but I couldn't get to it in time......... fate! I hope the pilots badge is right and would think it is as all the other things appear to be fine and there were a lot of early French Military photos(standard-man standing in uniform types). Thanks again everyone and praise be for a very interesting and informative website-well done Regards Rob

Jim · 11 June 2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterpiglet

I hope the pilots badge is right and would think it is as all the other things appear to be fine and there were a lot of early French Military photos(standard-man standing in uniform types). Thanks

As Wingandprop mentions, none of these eagle badges are 'right' - they were privately made as jewelry and sold to the public with some pilots buying them to wear unofficially on their uniforms until the regular French pilot's wings were authorized. What you would need to have is some absolute provenance that this exact pin was used by a pilot rather than a civilian. Unfortunately, from your description of this pin being found in a box lot it sounds like provenance is not going to be possible.

wingandprop · 12 June 2012, 08:01 PM

In memorabilia there are various levels of what is "right". Think of it as "most right", "right", "less right", a "lot less right", etc., before you finally end up at outright "wrong". "Most right" would be clear provenance attaching this pin to a particular named pilot. Relatively little in the WW1 aviation collecting world today meets that goal. Next would be an item that could be verified to have been "a" pilot's pin, even if the pilot's name is lost. Something less than that might be an item known to have come from the military aviation supply system, but which may or may not have ever actually been issued. Each level has a different level and type of provenance required, and each are valued differently.

As to your pin, Jim is correct: you aren't going to be able to establish it was, in fact, used by a particular, or any, French pilot, nor can you even show it to have come from the French aviation supply system. But you may be able to establish that it truly is a Bijou Fix wing from the period and not just a 2010 knock off that doesn't even look much like the true Fix wing (the bottom level of "wrong"). A period Fix pin would constitute an authentic example of a piece of costume jewelry popularly used by French pilots as an unofficial wing badge. Its not as good as saying this was actually used by a French pilot, but it still holds some value, both financial and intrinsic. Indeed, most private purchase goggles, flying coats, helmets, gauntlets, etc., are bought and sold on that basis every day, so it does potentially have some merit as "a generic example", even if you cannot identify the specific history of the piece.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but neither is it nearly so bleak as it might have seemed at first blush.

chesterpiglet · 13 June 2012, 06:31 AM

No, it's always good to hear opinions from persons more knowledgeable than oneself. When I said I thought it "right" I meant that it doesn't appear to be modern and appears to be from the period although of course it may never have been anywhere near a French Pilot's Tunic. This is based on 40 years of collecting "stuff". I have attached an interesting page from a book from a French website. Thanks again for all your comments