Another Richthofen this time the real McCoy?

ehrenpries · 9 February 2005, 12:47 AM

OK its time for me to confess to an ignorant gap in my knowledge !
Ive actually bought a couple of nice items that were listed as ex-'Charles Donald collection' ,items but for the life of me , I really am ignorant as to who Charles Donald was...any illumination out there ?........(Yukio need not reply!)Thanks
Ehrenpries

PS Im still searching in the cupboards for the Voss examples........crikey its annoying that they are not where they should be.....I guess we all know that feeling.!

Taz · 9 February 2005, 06:49 AM

Guido Scheffer was a family friend of the Voss family and can be seen in photos with Voss and MvR visiting the Voss household. MvR was flown to the Voss gathering by Guido Scheffer and there are well known photos of Scheffer and MvR on their way to and from the meeting with Guido acting as chauffeur. Guido was stationed at Koln near the Voss home in Krefeld. The signed Voss/F.I 103/17 photo is easily explained by Guido's closeness to Voss' family. An unsigned, poor copy of the photo is in Leaman's Dr.I book on page 51. I was convinced the photo was authentic because it came from Guido Scheffer's grandson. Nice collection, but very expensive. Worth it to me, though because I have a special interest in F.I 102/17 and 103/17 and Voss. Have original photos of both aircraft and the signed Voss photo. Several photos from the collection are posted by Rod Filan on his Rosebud web site. I also have signed photos/Sankes/postcards of Bäumer, Jacobs, Bolle, von Althaus, and Udet I have picked up. Scheffer was adjutant at Jasta 11 from 12 Jul-18 Dec 1917 and his friendship with Voss and MvR undoubtedly got him the job.

joegertler · 9 February 2005, 08:11 AM

Tony, Charles Donald was a long-time passionate collector of WWI items and especially of Von R related material. A lot of his material was considered to be questionable, some was not. he had a LOT of stuff. He was one of the more interesting "characters" in a field filled with eccentrics.

He wrote numerous articles on the vonR legend and corresponded with most collectors. A pleasant man if you caught him on the right day. Subject to tirades on other days.
Sometimes you could negotiate for years over buying/trading selling an item and wind up with just a pile of correspondence. At other times, I've known
him to give away nice items to those he liked. He gave a BUNCH of nice stuff to Bill Nungesser years ago. He was a great "character." I miss him.
TAZ; how about posting some of your signed Sanke cards in the WWI Autograph thread?I'm sure a lot of us would enjoy them..

Taz · 9 February 2005, 07:40 PM

Joe- Had not even thought of that. Photos are actually individually framed and under museum glass to protect them. Will have to see if they can be scanned while in the frames. Should have thought to scan them before framing, but never occurred to me somebody would be interested. Did you say on your site you had 17 Jim Dietz paintings? I have 4 of his oils (one on Fall 2003 OTF cover) and two pen and inks. Would be interested in seeing what you have.

Amy · 10 February 2005, 06:34 AM

Speaking of the Charles Donald collection... what exactly happened to his collection upon his death? In other words, was the collection willed to one person to sell off or something else? Has most of the collection been sold at this point? Was any of the collection donated to museums?

joegertler · 10 February 2005, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy

Speaking of the Charles Donald collection... what exactly happened to his collection upon his death? In other words, was the collection willed to one person to sell off or something else? Has most of the collection been sold at this point? Was any of the collection donated to museums?

I don't know who wound up with it, but dozens of his items have turned up in groups at several major auctions including Butterfield's (Now Bonham & Butterfield-and purchased by Ebay in 1999) I have also recognized a lot of his items on Ebay. Some seem to have come from the auction houses and others I don't remember from auction catalogues. Odds are-if you see a piece of fabric or a lock of hair from vonR offered, it might have been part of Charles Donald's collection. He had so many pieces that he kept cutting into smaller ones. Some-but not all-of Charle's sources have been of questionable authenticity. He wrote several magazine articles over the years detailing the many items in his collection, with numerous illustrations. I haven't heard of any of his collection being donated to any museum. As mentioned above, he DID make gifts of some of his material to other collectors, researchers and historians he corresponded with and who visited him. He was a passionate collector. a phone call to him would easily run over an hour, while he related anecdotes about finding and collecting WWI aviation items. I don't think there is a major loss in not having donated one square inch and smaller pieces of fabric (from various sources, with various claims) and photos, and small wood and metal bits, to museums...He had an extensive collection of correspondence with historians and old aviators, and people connected to the vonR legend. I think he sent copies of these to many people who asked and they are floating around-so-not lost...This was in the PRE-Intenet days. There is NO comparison with the much easier searching and referencing of WWI items today! You might have been lucky to find and have contact with .01% of the collectors, archives, foreign dealers and small private collections that you can find with a GOOGLE search in one DAY today!

joegertler · 10 February 2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Jim Dietz paintings? I have 4 of his oils (one on Fall 2003 OTF cover) and two pen and inks. Would be interested in seeing what you have.

Taz; I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours

Send me a PM with your email address. or email to my website email..
Don't want to hijack this thread even more...

bill1 · 10 February 2005, 08:38 AM

Just to add to the discussion, I have the "certificate of graduation" issued to Voss by his instructor in motorcyle repair. The certificate was mentioned in a book that I can no longer lremember (help, anyone?). The document was acquired from Conway Barker, a Texas dealer now deceased. I also acquired other signed Sanke cards from him, plus a penciled Luftpost note from Kreft to Voss's mother following the ace's death. Would really like to know the book title where the certificate is mentioned if anyone can help. Thanks!

ehrenpries · 15 February 2005, 04:26 PM

Heres an excuse to dust off some old journals !

There is a strong clear Voss signature on a congratulations card to

Willy Rosenstein in Vol25 No4 (Winter 1984) of the defunct Cross and Cockade USA journal (please note NOT THE UK publication).

Im afraid a 'crisis a day has kept the scanner away' ! But..............

Anyone out there fancy digging the article up from their dusty journals and posting a scan for the Voss fans in the above threads?!

The article on Rosenstein is fascinating by the way, and will be well worth rereading if you havent seen it since 1984 !

More mulled wine nurse before dawn patrol!

Ehrenpries