Aces Cigarette Case, MvR, Udet, etc.

GMU · 30 June 2006, 10:20 AM

Oh, Oh, not good. Isn´t that shill bidding?

Aerowallah · 4 July 2006, 12:56 PM

Only $3,722....!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320001021434

Squarely halfway between its value real, and its value as a pretty fake.

Upon final reflection:

1. IF the vendor's father paid so much money for it in the 1960s, he would've have kept paperwork/provenance for it. We all know it isn't from Richthofen's family.

2. Most cases that have had names added over time are styled differently, ie initials/no intitials, some with dates/w/o dates, some with ranks written in or even squadrons. These names look like they were all done at the same time, in which case the previous comments about Schleich's "von" apply.

Now I can afford that Red Baron action figure eBay lists as a "similar item" !

Taz · 4 July 2006, 07:38 PM

Just as a thought, Lothar was Freiherr von Richthofen in summer 1918. The case does not say Rittmeister or Manfred. Was certainly a high powered group.

Taz
Terry Phillips

FliegerJG1 · 5 July 2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowallah

Now I can afford that Red Baron action figure eBay lists as a "similar item" !

I get a kick out of those similar items! Unless they've corrected the body proportions on this newest doll, I'd save my money (LOL). I have 2 other MvR action figures and the body on those better matches a 6' 5" long legged basketball star. Would be really nice to see a more accurate representation of MvR.

Happy eBaying!

FliegerJG1

Aerowallah · 7 July 2006, 07:13 AM

Good point, Terry. I think we were misdirected by Bernd's crude sales pitch.

But I'm still hung up by that logo which should have been perfect...and easier to execute than those signatures.

If this is a corporate gift since the logo is prominently in the center left, why would it be so crude on such a fine case?

If the high bidder was a shill bid, maybe we'll see it back with a different description! If this is good and consigned to HH, It should fetch 5,000-7,000 + comm (now that it's w/o manfred) I should think.

drkovrlord · 24 August 2006, 10:26 AM

Interesting reading about the different cases. My father recently passed away and I found one of those cig cases among his assorted memorabilia. He never mentioned it to me so I really don't know anything about it, I do know he stopped buying this type of stuff in the early 1950's so I feel comfortable saying it was acquired well before then.

The case has the Mercedes-Benz logo on it (3 star) but its just the word Mercedes (no Benz) which I believe to be correct for that time frame, benz merged around the early to mid twenties if I'm not mistaken.

The following names are engraved inside.

Herman Göring
Bodenschatz
Loewenhardt
V. Boddien

Ernst Udet
Stapenharst
Gerstenberg
C. Allmenroden
Reinhard
Meirhoff
Freiherr

Manfred Von Richthofen
Lothar Von Richofen
GuBmann
Krefft
Meyer
Von Osten
Hohnike
Scheffer
Wolff
Just
Muller
Parker

Taz · 24 August 2006, 06:30 PM

DarkOverLord- That looks like a real treasure and I do not even smoke. With a tag like that, do you fence or throw knives? I gave up fencing.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Aerowallah · 27 August 2006, 08:49 AM

Wow...very forward looking design on the outside for a 19-teens case...no script of any kind on the exterior to explain the occasion...

This is from Wikipedia's entry on Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft

Three-pointed star: land, water and air

In the 1870s, while working for Otto at the Deutz-AG gas-engine company, in Cologne, Daimler sent his wife Emma Kunz a postcard, marking his residence with a three-pointed star and writing: "one day this star will shine over our triumphant factories". Since then, this line has inspired both Daimler and Maybach when developing light and powerful engines for "land, water, and air".

In the 1900s, after the Mercedes' success, DMG was still lacking a trademark. Paul and Adolf Daimler, the sons of Gottlieb (who had died in early March of 1900), suggested using that symbol. The company's board accepted the proposal in June 1909, also registering a four-pointed one (which has never been used).

The three-pointed star debuted in 1910. In 1916, it was surrounded by a circle with four additional stars, with either the name Mercedes or of the respective factory (Untertürkheim or Berlin-Marienfelde). In 1937, the familiar symbol was registered by Daimler-Benz, a three-dimensional three-pointed star, contained in a circle.

DOL--are those little white stars in that blue ring?
Rgds
John

drkovrlord · 27 August 2006, 08:17 PM

Hi and thanks for the info, yes you are correct, they are 4 stars in the border. I posted a close-up I hope it displays them better.

There appears to be no dedication/script of any kind on the case. I had never seen the case until my father passed so whatever history he had I'll never know.

On a side note, the case is dirty and a bit tarnished is there a safe process with which I could clean it myself or should I leave that to someone else?

Thanks for your input and expertise.

Drk

Matt Witt · 4 September 2006, 05:59 PM

Any good quality silver polish would be "safe" for this. Go to a shop selling antique silver and they will have any number of polishes, cloths, etc. Of course, there is always a debate as to whether you want to polish it or not. Some say yes, some say no, but it won't effect the value either way. Just dont polish it every week, or with a polish meant for anything other than silver (brass polishes, for instance, are fairly abrasive by comparison) and it will do quite well. A good polish will have chemicals that will help the case hold its shine longer, thereby avoiding the need to repolish as often, should you decide to shine it up in the first place. The enamel won't be harmed by a quality, commercially available, silver polish either.

As to the original post, someone noted that they wished they made repros of (signed?) cigarette cases. They do, they usually just don't tell you when they sell it to you. I have pointed out a couple silver items over the years that are purported to be WW1 silver cases,flasks, etc., that (curiously) carry hallmarks from the 1920's, 30's or even the 40's. Hallmarks are your easiest defenses to fraud. Every stamp means something: national origin, town of manufacture, silver content, silversmith, and date. English marks are the most comprehensive, but the German marks can be very helpful too.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, no pilot ever "signed" an inscribed case. The jeweler did. Someone would give the jeweler a sample signature for his use. I could easily do the same today. At the time, they were popular presentation items, gifts, etc. (Do you remember everyone signing everyone else's high school annual?) I don't know how much time lag might have been involved in getting one of these done; maybe a few weeks? A month or so? But clearly events could sometimes overtake these. Might some of these even have been made as memorials for the family (the late pilot's survivors)? Certainly that was done with cups and platters. As silver became harder to find, and casualties mounted, I suspect these cases would have been thought of as a good option, both cost wise, availability wise, and as a piece of personalty reminiscent of the lost family member. (This last is sheer speculation however.)