Aces Cigarette Case, MvR, Udet, etc.

Dave_Watts · 25 June 2006, 12:35 AM

Hi all,

Check this one out!

Engraved aces cigarette case. It has some good signatures.

Freiherr von Richthofen,

Ernst Udet, Unbekannt,

Bruno Loerzer,

Eduard Ritter von Schleich,

Oskar Freiherr von Boenigk, Joseph Jakobs, Unbekannt, Josef Veltjens, Hermann Göring, Schleiff,

Hans Klein,

Heinrich Bongartz.

I personally like the Pfalz logo engraved inside.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Zigarett...QQcmdZViewItem

The fellow says he has no proof it's original, he simply let's it speak for itself.

I wish someone would make replicas of these. If anyone has the hookups to do these we should do a group purchase!

For some years I've personally carried a Junkers WW1 cigarette case, (no signatures) as my wallet and it works fine holding my credit cards, cash, etc.

Best,
Dave W.

FliegerJG1 · 25 June 2006, 05:35 AM

This is an attractive piece and the Pfalz logo is especially nice to see on it. An observation....over time I have seen many cigarette cases as either gifts to MvR or associated with him in some way. It seems they must have been a very popular presentation item.

Thank you for posting this, Dave!

FliegerJG1

margaret smith · 25 June 2006, 05:10 PM

There is a nice cigarette case pictured on the www.frontflieger.de web site which was given to

Lothar von Richthofen for Christmas by Manfred his brother.

Aerowallah · 25 June 2006, 06:44 PM

Margaret, where do I go from your link...

Does anyone recognize that archer on the swallow/swift design?

Rgds
John

Dave_Watts · 26 June 2006, 01:13 AM

Hi all,

Margaret,

I could not find the correct link as well, although I did enjoy the website and went through much of it. Please post a link.

Flieger,

Glad to share the "find". I figured all would enjoy it.

Aerowallah,

Good point, as you pointed out I agree it may be the personal insignia of a pilot. I'll write Greg Van Wyngarden to check it out and see if he has any insights.

In the past I've seen photos of other really neat cases in Militaria auction house catalogs.

Best,
Dave W.

margaret smith · 26 June 2006, 04:12 AM

To get to this picture click on

Manfred von Richthofen's name in the index. Next, click on Lothar's picture where is says "Die Famillie von Richthofen" and scroll down to the bottom of the page. I hope this makes sense as I had trouble finding it myself this morning!

Aerowallah · 26 June 2006, 12:01 PM

Thanks, Margaret.

I dunno, IMHO that's a hokey looking case from big brother.

FYI here's an old thread on these things. Hermann Historica typically gets big numbers for these big names. I wonder why the vendor is risking much less on eBay?

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4753&hl=

Rgds
John

GMU · 26 June 2006, 01:37 PM

I don´t know. With the high prices people are paying nowadays for anything related to von Richthofen, I am always very skeptical about all these things. I am always wary when I hear weak provenance stories such as the one presented.

The case may be authentic, but the signatures could have been engraved much later and taken from other sources. I do not know the seller, and the case might or might not be good, but with many things coming out supposedly from von Richthofen, it makes me wonder……….Caveat Emptor !

26 June 2006, 08:55 PM

Hi Guys,

MvR couldn't have owned this case, as Eduard Schleich didn't become Ritter von Schleich until after he was knighted with the MMJO in July 1918 (the case is signed, 'v Schleich'). This was almost three months after MvR's death. Is the seller actually purporting that Richthofen owned the case?

I am very skeptical of its authenticity (although it is very pretty

)

BTW, von Schleich's signature looks correct.

regards,

Darren

Aerowallah · 27 June 2006, 08:12 AM

No, Richthofen would not autograph his own case.

There is no presentation or initials or clue other than that squadron logo ? on the front to indicate who might have received this.

The vendor says,

"My father was a friend of the auctioner and the item came out of the property of one family mamber of the Red Baron."

But that sounds like hearsay to me, and meant to tantalize. Most likely it was from the family of the recipient. Unless the recipient was killed and the case reverted to the giver, but that doesn't make sense either.

Rgds

Also, if you read the thread I provided you'll see it was the practice of these cases' owners to add autographs over time. There is no dedication linking the case to one event or date.