Amazing ZEPPELIN plate

Aerowallah · 4 September 2008, 07:36 AM

Saw this amazing item on eBay...

Only £1,650.00 "Buy it Now." Check it out before someone hits the button...

UNIQUE BERLIN HEINRICH MATHY ZEPPELIN PLATE 1917..RARE! on eBay, also Ceramics Pottery, World War I 1914-1918, Militaria, Collectables (end time 19-Sep-08 00:16:14 BST)

It is fabulous work, especially where the artist could not resist depicting a Zeppelin badge on a plate dated 1917.

It reminds me of a Zeppelin crewmembers "souvenir" that also came out of the UK. It looked like it was done by the same hand and also had a lurid drawing, this time of a Zeppelin being shot down in flames by a fighter. Not the sort of image I would want to remind me of my happy time in the service.

Sadly the dealer defends his piece saying he bought it at Sotheby's and that the auction house has provenenace and stands by it. Sotheby's also added that there are "experts" on the internet who blow enough hot air to keep a squadron of zeppelins aloft! I don't blame the dealer, really, he appears to be primarily a stamp dealer, and is out of his area of expertise. He also has listed a right U-boat plate, and anyone can see it has a sober period graphic. The zeppelin plate's imagery was probably conceived in the last 20 years.

Also watch out for very creative trench art coming out of the UK.

Rgds
John

ONEALM · 4 September 2008, 08:03 AM

I'm pretty sure this plate is part of the Deutsches Zeppelloni Collection put out by Hummel.

It is the successor line to their Authentic von Richthofen hand signed limited edition (25,000) collector plate edition put out in 1919....

Aerowallah · 4 September 2008, 08:07 AM

Damn, and I was going to serve Zeppelin-shaped lobster crudites to you on it if you ever get up to God's country, or "down east" to God's country, whatever...

Aerowallah · 4 September 2008, 02:31 PM

Equal time:

Dear aerowallah,

There must sadly always be those who attempt to discredit items ... with so many reasons that I would simply not have time to go into them all.

I have spoken with various experts during the course of the afternoon and all that has been achieved is that we now have a serious offer off ebay from a museum. Everyone has been most helpful and interested and two discussions have indicated that the plates were painted on blanks and therefore there may be several years difference in the date to the reverse and front of the plate as these would have taken considerable time to execute with such fine and precise work.

I am awaiting a further comment concerning the badge and its issue and use from a world leading expert.

The plates are what they are and there is absolutely no record of these having ever been reproduced. In actual fact the 12 plates of which three apparently are lost or broken are entirely unique.

From our extensive experience we have generally found that unique items tend to create the biggest stir among collectors and often also achieve incredible prices as a result.

Enjoy the listing while it is up ... I ought however to advise that reproducing our images is a breach of international copyright where permission is not gained beforehand.

Regards

Frankmck41

and...

Dear aerowallah,

I think the embarrassment is going to be all yours!

While I don't mind you openly discussing the plate in any of your forums I must ask that you immediately remove the photographs which have been used without permission. I will check later to ensure that this has been done.

Regards

Frankmck

Moderator?

Aerowallah · 4 September 2008, 04:31 PM

The rest of the story...

Amazing ZEPPELIN plate - Gentleman's Military Interest Club

Rolex5513 · 4 September 2008, 04:53 PM

Very cool retro piece no doubt

crankcase · 4 September 2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowallah

...I must ask that you immediately remove the photographs which have been used without permission..

I don't understand. You posted an ebay link. How is that in violation of anything?
marc

Frentzen · 5 September 2008, 02:37 AM

Hysterical overreaction would be something of an understatement. It might have just been better to make his case for authenticity and left it at that. He is being somewhat disingenuous by stating the date of the work is 1917. Had he stated that the plate was dated 1917, but was painted at some point from 1920 on, I don't think anybody would have objected. He seems to be protesting a bit too much. Maybe I'll make an offer of 25 pounds and see if he'll accept. It is a pretty plate.

Dan

Frentzen · 5 September 2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankcase

I don't understand. You posted an ebay link. How is that in violation of anything?
marc

I think Aerowallah had posted some of the pics at the other site and the seller was having a hissy fit over that.

Dan

ONEALM · 5 September 2008, 08:08 AM

All the superfluous chatter from the seller is irrelevent to the argument.

In my experience the dogs who bark the loudest don't have the teeth to back up their noise.

If he wanted to refute anything on either this forum or the GMIC site, then he should have simply laid out his case and answered a few simple questions.

1) What/Who are his expert sources ?
2) What is the provenence of the plate - beyond simply tossing Sotheby's name in the mix. Who is the manufacturer - how many were produced. Surely there would be some period documentary proof of this.
3) How do you explain the badge painted under the glaze which clearly date the piece post 1919. Was it added ? can that be proven ? Is it double glazed ? Did you really mean it was fired in 1917 ?

I can think of 50 other questions which will probably remain unanswered. It's our duty to ask these questions and it is likewise the duty of the seller to provide coherent, verifiable answers. Simply threatening legal action is asinine.

I know a little about copyright law as well - at least as it applies in the US - and I find nothing to suggest the images are copyrighted. There is no EBAY disclaimer that I am aware of which prohibits these public-use images from being re-used and there is no explicit copyright on the images themselves. Can the seller - who obviously peeks in to this thread on occassion - clearly explain his basis for the claim of copyright protection ? I'd be very interested to hear the legal basis of that particular claim.

So answer the simple questions above regarding the piece itself and produce your case as regards copyright as anyone with a stitch of self-assuredness in the basis of their claims would do.