Dr.1 425/17 markings

Hi!

Does anyone have any information about the markings of von R's last triplane? I am specifically wondering about the serial and older style iron crosses which may have showed through the red paint or the newer style straight crosses. I have seen pictures of the remaining crosses in museums and they seem to show the original crosses through the overpainting but I am not sure if that is only 70+ years later or if they looked like that in service. I have also seen a reference on this forum to the "Dr.1 425/17" showing through the red paint.

Any help is much appreciated!

Chris

PS: Sorry for the double posting, I forgot the title!

[StephenLawson]

Greetings and welcome to the drome. You will get some great results if you try the search engine at the bottom. Be sure and click on 'the beginning ' for the perameters. Try MvR, 425/17, and other similar key words. Also more detailed info will probably be found in aircraft and People. There is a lot to sift through. The best choice of reference material is;

Richthofen by A E (ED) Ferko. Who has not heard of the Baron and his famous all-red Fokker Triplane? Written by the late A E Ferko, this is a superb record of Germany's leading fighter pilot, which also includes detailed appendices and notes. There are 203 photos (many hitherto unpublished from Ed's unrivalled photo collection) that trace the Baron's WWI career in its entirety. 84 pages offer a unique, fresh insight into Germany's Ace of Aces; also included are 4 colour pages with 15 colour profiles of the Baron's aeroplanes, some illustrated for the very first time. Foreword by J M Bruce.. £21.00

Von Richthofen's Flying Circus (Fabric Special 1). This superb 68 page book provides extensive pictorial coverage of Jagdgeschwader Nr.I's Jastas 4, 6, 10 and 11 - the famous flying circus! With 183 archive photos, 12 mono profiles and 10 colour pages packed full with over 47 exacting new colour profiles by Ray Rimell providing modellers with a wide choice of schemes for the best known German fighter aeroplanes of WWI. Written by Greg VanWyngarden, a markings specialist. £16.95

http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.com/

http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.com/stock.html

[pmirl]

Chris:

Someone posted these photos of a cross from 425/17 a while back. I found it interesting that you could see the "425/17" on the side and that it wasn't overpainted like many thought it was.

Paul

[pmirl]

Here it is a little clearer:

[pmirl]

And a close-up.

Thank you both very much! I appreciate the welcome. I am normally a WWII modeller that is activating a long time love of WWI in model form. I have decided to do a Dragon Dr.1 in von R's markings(the wife loves red and I have always had a fascination with Richthofen's last fight) . I have the Windsock Datatfile on the Dr.1 and also some old research of my own available but I live in the Arctic at the moment and I don't have ready access to further research. Those pictures seem to be the ones that I saw years ago and was thinking of when I made the post.

Again, thanks for both the information and the wecome!

Chris

[Dan_San_Abbott]

ChrisCowx:
If you want to paint the correct color, do not paint the red in the cross field.
The correct color is that very dark red where the number 17 shows throught. Now the fun starts!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[RAGIII]

Chris, welcome and I am sure you will get more than you need from this group! Well known WW1 Authors, researchers, Artists Etc. Hang out here. I will probably need to duck into the cloud cover, but looking at the pics of this Aircraft, I see no evidence of the overpainted crosses showing through. I believe that this happened with aging and flaking of the samples cut from the Aircraft. Check out the Mentioned Ferko work, It is excellent!
RAGIII, Diving and Heading for Clouds!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

RagIII:
There are three changes visible in the left fuselage cross:
1. The Iron cross with the 50 mm white border.
2. The first very broad balken cross with the narrow white border.
3. The final form of the Balken Cross with the wide white border.
The photos of Fok.DR.I 477/18, identified by some as Dr.I 425/17 do not show any difference in coverage of the fuselage cross fields and the the areas adjacent to the over painted cross fields. Like you, I think that the white bleeding through the red paint, is an ageing process.
The vermillion paint has carbon black mixed into the vermillion. The carbon black is NOT in solution, that is mixed into the vermillion pigments, it is in suspension. I studied my piece of MvR fabric (verified) under a 100 power microscope. It looked like a field of vermillion with lumps of coal strewn over the field. It has been suggested the the carbon black was from exhaust gases, This is impossible, my piece is from the cross field from the under side of the lower wing. There was no olive brown or sky blue under the dark red paint, just clear dope. The paint film was .0004" thick, just one coat of dark red paint.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[RAGIII]

Thanks Dan. If I am reading you correctly, the Dr1 most often Identified as 425/17, with the Inverted V glitch in the fabric is actually 477/17. Also as some have said 425/17 was factory painted RED.
RAGIII