Questions RE: Paul Baumer's Triplane

[mharris4]

I'm in the process of building the late war version of Paul Bäumer's Triplane with the Balkenkreuz and black/white/red wingtips. I've gone through all my current reference material available and have some questions as to what the prevailing opinions on color & markings might offer. Here goes:

1. Tail markings: would the split black/white tail markings on the horizonal stabilizer been applied to the underside as well or would those likely to have remained torqouise?
Likewise - how would underside of fuselage in this area been painted?

2. Fuselage stripe: would the red/white/black fuselage stripe been painted on the under surface of the fuselage or would that have also been left as torqouise?

3. Rudder outline in black: Earlier photo when his aircraft had the Eisernkruez markings showed the rudder with with a black outline (photo-Leaman's book on Fokker Dr.1/ page 143). However photo showing rudder after conversion to Balkenkreuz (Osprey DR.1 Aces book / page 59 photo) indicates no black border after conversion. Squadron Dr.1 in Action book / page 24 / 2nd aircraft in line-up clearly shows black border after conversion. Work in progress? What's up with this?

4. Red strip on wing tips: Same photo page 59 of Osprey Dr.1 Aces book clearly shows red stripes on the upper surfaces of the lower and middle wings but none on the top wing. Blue Rider decal sheet indicates red stripes existed on tops of all three wings. If black border on rudder appearing as "work in progress" after markings conversion - what is likelyhood that a red stripe ever did get added to top of upper wing? Anyone have any additional photos from older publications that might offer insight? Windsock Datafile Special color profile on page 7 offers that red stripe did exist in this position but I've not located a photo that supports this.

5. Lastly - Balkenkruez on horizontal tailplane - The same color profile on page 7 of the Windsock Datafile Special offers that the horizontal cross marking on the upper tailplane had been overpainted in olive prior to the new Balkenkruez being applied. Photo on page 59 of the Osprey Dr.1 Aces book suggests that White was used to overpaint the older cross before new one was applied - which corresponds to color profile in Leaman's book , page 143. Thoughts on this one?

Thanks for all input. Model is about 35% complete at this stage so don't be shy!

[StephenLawson]

Here is a place to start before I comment

[StephenLawson]

Another

[StephenLawson]

The answer is The markings on a machine can change on the the whim of the pilot and or the availability of paint. Using photographs gives you the most information possible. But these two photos could have been taken at different times. I would say no red stripe on the upper surface of the top wing. Yes the colors were apparant on the undersurfaces. Try the old Cross & Cockade USA edition that has Bäumer's 204/17 in detail by B. Schmäling. (Rare find) But your best bet is the Fokker Dr.I Datafile special that is still available through Albatros Pub. This 44 page book provides a wealth of material: 67 archive photos, 3 pages of detailed GAs, contemporary airframe/component sketches plus over 24 stunning colour plates of Triplanes from 11 Jastas. Also includes a 2 page centrespread cutaway, colours and markings data and model listings. £13.00 (21.00 USD?)

http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.com/

[Lyle]

Gentlemen:
I am of the theory that the 3/4 rear view of 204/17 shows it in an imcomplete state; when painting the stripe on the bottomside of the top wing, it would have been simple to just continue it around. I'm also of the opinion that they tipped the plane on its nose to paint the top wing, topside or bottom. There's a photo of a reflecting gunsight on a Jasta 12 Dr.I, taken with the plane resting on its prop hub, evidently a practice not unheard of. I don't think Bäumer would have been happy without the stripe. I agree, no photo shows it but I'm just saying it COULD have been painted.

I painted my fuse bottom turquoise to the tailskid, but the black/white could have met on the centerline.

I don't know what happened with the red-white-black fuse stripes...I just used the Blue Rider decal and was happy in my ignorance.

Looking at that Jasta B lineup, the rudder does have that outline, but the photo posted above shows no outline but the cross as being a little 'fatter', thus an earlier version. I'd say it had the outline later on...

The tailplane cross is a tough call, maybe we can get Greg van Wyngarden to help us out!

I've got the C&C issue that Stephen Lawson mentioned; but the photos aren't any better than what Mr. Lawson has provided...in fact, the second one is totally new to me.

I think the Osprey book covers this plane better than what the Windsock Datafile Special does, but that's my opinion. Nevertheless, the Datafile is worth it for the rest of the material. That, plus THE FOKKER TRIPLANE by Alex Imrie is essential as well. Available but OOP and tough to locate.

[StephenLawson]

Lyle just one point from me here. The Triplane on its nose was Greven's and the prop, cowling and engine were off the a/c when they tipped it over on its nose.

[Lyle]

Thanks Stephen, sounds like that was a bit more involved than I was led to believe...
Obviously they had some system to take care of either overpainting top wings or painting decorations...take Kempf's two triplanes and his name emblazoned up there. Perhaps it was nothing more simple than taking the top wing off and putting it on horses to work on it. I know the triplane was one of the easiest planes to set up in the field.

[StephenLawson]

Also certain components were apt normally to be replaced several times during the operational life of a machine. These seemed to be rudder, elevator ailerons and with the Dr.I sometimes the whole top wing.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

MHarris4:
In February 1980 I did a study of Ltn. Paul Bäumer's Fok.DR.I 204/17 in it's three iterations, and it's third version is what you are talking about, this is my version after studying several photographs from Peter Grosz.
Upper wing: Both surfaces, black to the white crossfield, balken crosses, 1000 x 300 mm arms.
Middle wing: Wing tips black both sides to the third rib from the tip, 75mm white stripe, both surfaces and a red stripe 25 mm wide, both surfaces.
Lower wing: Black tip to the second rib, both surfaces. white cross field from the second to the fifth rib, both sides, balken cross, 800 x 300, centered on the white crossfields both sides.
Tailplane: from the left tip, white to the center, black to the right tip, both sides. From the leading edge white crossfield, 900 x 900 mm, black balken cross, 800 x300mm, top surface only.
Rudder: edged in a black border, 50 mm wide. Black balken, 600 x 200mm centered on the rudder.
Fuselage: Black cowl with a white face, left side white 1900 mm from the rudder post, right side black 1900 mm from the rudder post. Left fuselage cross, 500 x 200mm, centered 1550 from the rudder, bothsides. Right side, black cross, edged in white 50 mm wide.
Diagonal stripes: three stripes slopeing 23° from the upper longeron aft, each 150mm wide, red forward, white and black aft. on the top turtle-deck the stripes slope aft 150mm at the center and aft on the bottom.
Hope this helps.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[CWatson]

Of the two pictures above I would think the second one was taken on a later date.The white on the caban strutes should show on the first picture also but does not.

CW