Advanced Modelers Syndrome

[StephenLawson]

Greetings all;
In past threads we have skirted this issue and several have pronounced the dangers thereof. While I fully admit to having it there are those who's high caliber modeling skills are self-evident of the affliction. One fine modeler that comes to mind is the master builder Ken Foran.

In a recent e-mail to me he mentioned that the reason he went to scratchbuilding in brass was that he was tired of the "crap" that is sold as scale in kits. Looking at his fine works on the WWI Modelers Page I realize that I too could aspire to such works...with the right tools. But I am loth to spend a whole year on just one kit without working on others and completing them within a reasonable time space.

The point is that there is room at the contest table for everyone. The builder, the detailer, the superdetailer, the scratchbuilder. Multilevels in this hobby assure that everyone has a place. There are merits to the clean simple basic build (as evidenced by the preference of these in many contest winners categories) and to the fine masterful work of say, Mr. Lance Krieg ( a Mike Fritz awardee.) The "most memorable build and dioramas" thread gives us all a taste of what other builders are doing in other parts of the world. Most of the time imitating the finer merits of these builds helps the build gain new insights as how he / she can excel.

The whole reason for the "Models" title is to learn and excel. Mastering techniques like dry brushing to bring out "existing molded in details" for instance. Learning to put down just enough paint to give the right effect. Realizing that the whole reason for putty is to level a surface or union in preparation for painting. The whole purpose to sanding is to level a surface or union in preparation for painting. Learning to build a model that you the builder is acceptable. Comparing the kits you built as a kid to the ones you build today and asking the question...what could I do to improve?

Don't let anyone tell you that you should not try to do any better or that you should be satisfied with their opinions. Also understand that if you post something and ask for an honest assessment be warned you just may get it. Though I prefer to do it in personal messages first then bring it to open discussion if there's anything that everyone might benefit from it. Others have differing approaches. It seems the general attitude here is to encourage all builds and criticisms are downplayed to help the neophyte learn to walk rather than crawl. This is a good practice and keeps unwarranted critics out of the picture. When one is ready for meat then the milk dries up.

Though occassionally you will find yourself stepping back from the detailed builds and doing something simple to keep fun in your hobby. He have that luxury and its one we all should not shut out of the hobby room or brush into the dust bin. Just my opinion.

[ChrisSavaglio]

I agree to a lot of what you said. One thing about criticism. I don't thing there are too many on this forum or the WWI list that are out there to tear someones work down. I've noticed that too many times people are afraid to say, hey, that doesn't look quite right or that shouldn't be like that because they're afraid to offend someone.

Of course, tact is the name of the game, but at the same time, for someone to get better, they have to realize where they went wrong and how they can fix it or do better next time. Even the most talented modelers started somewhere and needed help. Everyone can always improve, but many times we can't see our own errors as easily.

What I'm saying is that nobody should be bashful about criticizing someones work. Just put in a way that's constructive. Something like...."The decal film on that decal is visible...try puting some future down before and after to help eliminate that," would work just fine and probably not offend most.

Chris

[curtisswright]

Some real good suggestions here. I might add that the value of this forum is immense. It has helped me to become a better modeler, and the depth of knowledge from many of the participants regarding the historical end of the hobby is second to none. Not to mention that there are some real fine people here.

Mr. Lawson's comments should not be taken lightly. They are what I see to be the basic principles of this, or any hobby. Keep your own skill level in mind when choosing a subject. Be honest with yourself with what you have and have not been successful with and do not be afraid to try something different. We will all get better with practice, being open to constructive criticism, and having the confidence to attack a problem based on the suggestion from someone who is simply a more accomplished builder than ourselves. Put one foot in front of the other and ask questions. Make your build a series of small successes and don't try to do too much in one night. Remember that it is all about how you feel about your build and that we take from the experience what we put into it. Above all else, it should be an overall fun and rewarding experience, so enjoy!

[drIace]

per the above: critism /advice/comments should be given when requested, remembering to keep in mind how would you like those comments to be phrased if you were on the receiving end. It must be kept in mind that when a model is built for one's own pleasure it is far from being held to the same level as one that has been entered in a critically judged contest where the utmost skill is the expected norm.

[buzz1941]

I've always thought of Advanced Modellers Syndrome as self-inflicted -- the inability to finish any project due to near-constant "correction" of the given parts. Yes, I suffer from it as well.
Here is a four-step program:
* Build only to please yourself or your client.
* If you can't see it, don't build it.
* The goal is the trip, not the destination.
* And, oh yeah, real aircraft are not made of styrene and Krazy Gloo. The completed model is only a representation of the real thing.

And one more:
* If you're afraid of screwing up, go build a tank. And build it in one weekend.

[curtisswright]

Originally Posted by drIace

per the above: critism /advice/comments should be given when requested, remembering to keep in mind how would you like those comments to be phrased if you were on the receiving end. It must be kept in mind that when a model is built for one's own pleasure it is far from being held to the same level as one that has been entered in a critically judged contest where the utmost skill is the expected norm.

Very good point. And worth remembering when building and commenting on someone elses work. The goal is not to alienate would-be new modelers, but to nurture interest for the future.

[ChrisSavaglio]

I don't know about having to request criticism. I think that if you're posting on a site like this or on the wwi-models.org site, you have to expect some amount of criticizing to go along with the back patting. Granted, some say, go easy on me, it's my first model in X years, or it was a throw together kit to experiment with X technique. I think we're all doing someone a big dis-service if we only tell him/her how great they did without any constructive criticism. We all only get better when we realize our errors, mistakes, or other shortcomings. Many of us are overly critical of our own work, common to a group of modelers modeling the unique and difficult subjects we do. But many don't see what we can do better, or, more importantly, how we can do better.

It's been my experience in the last coupe years I've been in the wwi modeling community that the folks in this line of modeling are a special breed in a lot of ways. The subject matter is off the beaten path and there are a lot more folks that take on very challenging projects, well beyond the cursory P-51, BF-109, or other lost in the crowd models. The maturity and buddy helping nature of this group is much better than any I've seen in the various forms of modeling around. I don't think anyone here(for the most part) is out to tear someone apart and make them quit modeling. There are folks like that in many other areas of modeling, though.

My point of this long winded post was that as long as it's presented tactfully and helpfully, I don't think anyone's feelings are going to get hurt. And it makes us all better modelers.

If modeler A posts a model and someone says, hey, great model, but try this technique to get this to work better, it's going to help modeler B out also because he gets the info too.

As Dennis Miller would say after a rant, "But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Chris

[curtisswright]

Absolutely. Lip service does little good. We should be careful of what we wish for because it just might happen! If we are "thin-skined" (which is not the case here) perhaps we should not post, or solicit commentary. This is a terriffic community of modelers to be involved with. I read nothing but support and encouragement in this thread.

[StephenLawson]

For me its important to know the age of someone I am speaking to on the forum. Youngsters sometimes like to keep their age unknown so they will be treated seriously. Yet critiquing a younger person demands that encouragement be paramount in the overall discussion. Yet if you speak in a similar manner to an adult they might see it as talking "down" to them. Usually when someone asks for a critique I'll send them a PM. It seems to give the other person a feeling of personal involvement on the senders part.

If we want our hobby ranks to grow we need to get new modelers interested in the art of building stringbags. Whether they string their bags or not.

[ChrisSavaglio]

I hadn't even thought about the poster's age. That's a really good point.

Most times when I offer a critique, I try to point out what worked really well and what was really nice about the model, before mentioning the(usually minor here) parts that could have been done better or don't look quite right.

A time comes to mind when someone posted a link to another forum where someone was doing a build up on a newer kit. The modeler was not new to modeling but was new to rag wings. His wood technique was done in a similar way as most of us, utilizing different types and thicknesses of paint over a base color to get the grain effect. It looked fantastic on the plywood surfaces. But he continued the technique in exactly the same manner on the prop. The grain pattern went wrong directions for a prop and knots were incorporated, which you would never see on a structural wood part of an airplane, let alone the prop itself. He received nothing but comments on how great the "wood" parts looked. But nobody said anything about the prop and I'm sure someone had to have noticed, since it aroused a lot of not so great comments on this forum.

It would have been easy for someone to say, "Your wood technique looks great on such and such parts. But for some parts, like the prop, it should look like this........."

I don't think he would have taken offense and would most likely have welcomed the constructive criticism.

Chris