Zeppelin (airship) study model

star-art · 23 February 2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beto

Stereo pictures are easy to convert to mono.. .Once scanned, it's easy to substract one of the channels (red, green or blue) and get only one of the views of the stereo pair.

As a matter of fact, they are red/blue anaglyphs (I'm just learning about this stuff). I have Photoshop so what you describe should be very easy to accomplish. I'll give it a try -- thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lufbery

An issue of Fine Scale Modeler featured a 1/72 scale WWI Zeppelin. It was NINE FEET LONG!

Yes, I happened to spot a reference to that somewhere and it turned out I had the issue in my archive. Feb 1990 and the fellow (Matt Hargreaves) lived in Seattle which is where I live now (small world!). His model was very impressive, though with the styrene frame probably quite heavy.

He used Econokote to cover the frame (Monokote only sticks to wood). I originally thought plastic film was the way to go as well, but I am now thinking tissue will yield just the right scale look, texture and feel and will be much easier to control when applying. It will also be easier to hide the seams I would think.

Matt's model, though very large, was somewhat lacking in detail, probably due to lack of reference (it was the '80s and no Internet!). If you compare his model to the much smaller Hippo Models 1/144 scale WWI-era Zeppelin you can see how much detail he did not include.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lufbery

In any event, I like the computer model. Did you model the rigid structural elements as well?

Yes and no. I figured out the interior structure and modeled what was necessary, mainly the keel. The frame stations on this early model were quite crude and much of it was just wire rigging (i.e. stay wires). The hull on my model is divided into the proper number of sections even though that does not show in the render.

I could easily model the entire frame if I needed to. But my study model was built to help me get everything positioned and proportioned correctly and then to generate plan view drawings. So my models are built strictly as a pattern making tool and not really for "show" like most people would build in 3D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

Wouldn't a 1/144th scale be easier to get out the door? . . .I have 1/144th scale models of the giant clippers and other airliners and they're still pretty big in that scale.

That is too small IMHO. Most people look only at the length and then imagine a really huge model, when the thing is so slender that overall it is really not that large. Even a 6-7 foot Zeppelin model can be only 8 inches or so in diameter! So it's long but not really very big.

I did up a scale chart of every major rigid airship and plotted the sizes in 1/400, 1/350, 1/200, 1/144, and 1/72. (I'll be putting the entire chart on my new website in the not-so-distant future.) For this particular model, the figures are:

1/350 (a ship scale) 1' 5/8" long X 1 3/16" diam
1/144 2' 11" long X 3 1/4" diam
1/72 5' 10" long X 6 9/16" diam

So you see even at 1/72 it is less than 7 inches in diameter! Not very big at all.

I didn't plot 1/48 scale because the larger, later Zeppelins would be over 20 feet long which is really not practical. I would like to have all my models in the same scale, so at 1/72 the largest ones are just over 10 feet -- huge, yes, but not completely unmanageable.

jempie · 23 February 2006, 11:49 AM

Hi!

I am not a modeller, but if you wish to see photos, alike LZ 1 and others
go once to my submitted photos "Early Airships - J-P Lauwers on the website
maintained by Rod Filan!

www.earlyaviator.com

I am more a photocollector and I have lots of photos on a big part of airships constructed.

Sorry to tell, ut the LZ 1 bownose you made is not black, but inreallity had a nose alike a pencil! A black dot, not fully painted black!
This suits more to be the bownose of the LZ 2!
Same to the tailsection!

Than there was a weight swinging under it on cables as the hull was used as elevator dispositif! (By pulling up at one side the cable on which the weight was fitted!

Than that girder connecting under the hull was very primitive and there were less supports to the hull connecting this structure!

Your PC modell seems me more alike the patents or booksdrawings from this LZ 1...the real thing was indeed more amateuristic constructed!

Sorry, you need once indeed take a look at the photos....

I have so good as all pre-WWI Zeppelins on photo...

On passenger airships there is (or was?) at Friedrichshafen Zeppelin Museum bookshop an album available with reprints of early photocards of these!
Quite good quality and would gove you at least a better idea...
They have also single todays postcards for sale, even in colour, but of good quality , also on those early Zeppelins!

Problem might be details of interiors!

My own problem is that I have PC problems and for more cant scan separate photos anymore! Can't attach on my mails the photos too!My outlook express refuses my photos to attach!
But I found a way to use the "webmail utility" to do!

But needs once to see what I have saved on external discs on the Zeppelin photos...I noticed on that website no LZ 6 and LZ 8 seems to be present, but these I have also! (The photos are all own collection, I didn't use those from the album!)

So if interested, I'll could see what I have saved on the discs...
Can't promise LZ 1 & LZ 2 are on it, but I know solme pre WWI I have still available on there!
contact me at : joel.lauwers@pandora.be

thanks!

VBR

Jempie / Jean-Pierre Lauwers.

star-art · 23 February 2006, 04:23 PM

That would be wonderful, thank you very much! I have seen the website you mentioned and it has some of the best available photos of early Zeppelins. Any additional photos you could provide would be a wonderful resource! I will e-mail you shortly.

My model was not created to show the proper color, markings, or texture. You are correct the bow section was not darker in color like the one shown in my rendering. I was attempting only to show the correct shape and structure.

The weight sliding below apparently changed in configuration. On the maiden flight it was suspended by a rope. On a later flight this was reported to have been changed and slid on a rail slung underneath the hull. The photos of the early flight show a much lighter structure underneath. Unfortunately the photos of this are heavily retouched and do not show all the detail.

My model was based on clearer photos showing the ship in the shed under construction where you can clearly make out a more dense structure of frames suspended underneath the hull. This was probably a revised structure after the first flight. But it is not clear from these images how the sliding weight was built and incorporated into the structure.

Thank you again for your input and I look forward to learning more! Since I do not speak German it is difficult to get anything from the Museum at Friedrichshafen. I placed an order for a book on LZ-2 but they have not even confirmed receipt of this order and have not replied to e-mails. I would love to visit this museum in person but that will not be possible anytime soon.

Thanks!

star-art · 23 February 2006, 07:07 PM

Here are some photos I used to recreate the structure. It now appears I may have misinterpreted the drawings. I just discovered a second drawing which shows a revised structure. It appears I made some assumptions in filling in the missing details and inadvertantly combined two different configurations for this airship when I made my model.

Does anyone know of sources for larger scans of these original drawings? Fortunately by building the model in 3D it is easy to make revisions. But I would really like to get this right!

Thanks!

jempie · 24 February 2006, 06:35 AM

Hi!

My apologies, but I fear the second LZ 2 photo on the Bodensee is wrong!
I just noticed there are at tailend those horizontal stabilisatorfins!
In fact the LZ 3 was probably made with the parts recuperated frol LZ 2 and the first configuration from LZ 3 was very probably apart of these stabilisator fins and elevator rudders under the hull +/- identical to LZ 2!
That erronly identified photo must be dating from October 1906!
I need to warn now Rod filan to change that info!
Later the those direction rudders underbeneath the gondola to bow and tailend were removed and the direction rudders fitted between those horizontal stabilsatorfins! That's the next photo which is indeed following my opinion than the second configuration of this LZ 3!

What goes on the LZ 1 : indeed I must check once my book on that one..
but in store at the flat at this moment and not here on the bookshelves of my hobby-house!

I vagely remember indeed that little wagon in the middle of LZ 1 on wheels and I remember there were in it as ballast stored spare and reserve parts for in case of technical problems! It was fitted to a rope or cable so they could move it to change the gravity point of the airship!
But's years ago I did have a look into this books!

The Zeppelin Museum Friedrichshafen :
The LZ 2 bookwork is made by Wolfgang-Meighörner-Schardt (I have it here but in German!) He is the Public Relation man for the museum for more and speaks fluently English! So your order shouldn't be a problem even the personnel there shouldn't speak English!
I met him myself in 1993 and 2000! So I know!

But as you noticed from the website I am collecting photomaterial and books
on all kind of airships!
But my interest started when having bought 1990, the Zeppelin Weltfahrten I album from 1932...covers so a bit all airships from LZ 1 until Graf Zeppelin (1927) ut barely some photo in it from pre-WWI zeppelins!
Since I bought me indeed lots of airship books...dozens of them!
Than I collected also contmporary magazines for more...containing reports on these!

However what goes on airships as LZ 7 (1910!) and LZ 8 "Deutschland" be aware lot's of photos published are wrong annotated!
If the name "DEUTSCHLAND" is on it, beware this is always LZ 8 and never
LZ 7! On LZ 7 NEVER (!) the name "DEUTSCHLAND was painted!

VBR

Jempie

star-art · 14 March 2006, 06:59 PM

The model is now pretty much finished. For more renders, please look here:

http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums...?p=115#post115

buzz1941 · 14 March 2006, 07:56 PM

Actually, the standard ship modelling scale is 1/96 -- does that apply to airships as well?

star-art · 14 March 2006, 08:39 PM

I suppose it could. Considering their huge size, you could adapt a ship scale. Popular sizes for airships seem to be 1/700, 1/400 and 1/200. I would add to that standard aircraft scales of 1/144 and 1/72 for larger subjects. For the occasional HUGE display (such as for a museum) maybe add 1/48!

star-art · 14 March 2006, 11:02 PM

Now starting work on LZ-2!

http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums...o=newpost&t=46

star-art · 17 March 2006, 12:17 PM

More progress:

http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums...hread.php?t=46

I'm finding the most difficult part of creating patterns for these early Zeppelins is recreating the gondola. The hull of the ship comes together very quickly, but much more effort is required to create the gondola and then do all the rigging (and there is a LOT of rigging on these early models!).