Joseph Jacobs 450/17

Brotrob · 19 March 2006, 11:56 PM

Hello Folks,

are your shure that the captured engine was used on this Aircraft? I'm asking because Jacobs also used another black Dr-1, one without the devil painted on, and with only very thinn white "Balkenkreuz"-type crosses.

By the way, a very nice build. I have started a little "factory" of those cheap Revell-Dr1's, 5 in total, such that I only have to do the streaking camouflage once

And those Spandau's, where did you get them from? They add so much to the model, I have to admitt.

Cheers,

Brotrob

Fritz Kempf · 20 March 2006, 05:05 AM

Brotrob
Jacob’s first aircraft 450/17, and 470/17 had the early production undercarriage modification (extra struts bracing the air foil). So this is not the way to date this aircraft, and I don’t know of one either. In the windsock Data File on the Dr1 pg 13, it states that it wasn’t known if 470/17 was ever fitted with a Clerget but that 450/17 was. It states that from an interview Jacobs gave in later years that he preferred the Clerget and would trade crates of champagne to local infantry units who could supply him with captured engines.

Now depending on which books your read this might confuse you. In Leaman’s book Fokker Dr1 Triplane on pg 153 he states that Jacobs preferred the Le Rohne to the Oberursel and gave creates of champagne for those. Then on pg 168 he has the picture of Jacobs and his gray hound in front of one of his Dr1s and states that it was fitted with a Clerget, his preferred power plant of choice, but the picture clearly shows a Oberursel with an Axeo (sic) propeller. He must have been having a bad day.

Ed

Brotrob · 20 March 2006, 05:55 AM

Thanks for the detailed information, Fritz!

I'm planning to bild the Dr-1 without the devil. His crate must be among a Dr-1 collection, in my opinion, since appearently he was by far the most sucsessfull pilot on the Dreidecker...

StephenLawson · 20 March 2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Kempf

Brotrob
Jacob’s first aircraft 450/17, and 470/17 had the early production undercarriage modification (extra struts bracing the air foil). So this is not the way to date this aircraft, and I don’t know of one either. In the windsock Data File on the Dr.I pg 13, it states that it wasn’t known if 470/17 was ever fitted with a Clerget but that 450/17 was. It states that from an interview Jacobs gave in later years that he preferred the Clerget and would trade crates of champagne to local infantry units who could supply him with captured engines.

Yes, 470/17 was fitted with a Clerget as well. See; Cross & Cockade Intl.
Vol. 25 #2 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.I”
Vol. 25 #3 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.II”
Vol. 29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”
and ...
Looking for some forum input

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Kempf

Then on p. 168 he has the picture of Jacobs and his gray hound in front of one of his Dr.I types and states that it was fitted with a Clerget, his preferred power plant of choice, but the picture clearly shows a Oberursel with an Axial propeller. He must have been having a bad day.

Ed

That is Dr.I 470/17

Fritz Kempf · 20 March 2006, 09:26 AM

Stephen
That’s not the picture I was talking about, that looks like a bird dog not a Grey Hound. Thats interesting though; that there is proof that he did have a Clerget on 470/17. It would make censes that he did, since that was his favored engine. BTW the link you posted is broken, would love to read it.

Brotrob
I’m not sure that this is true but the Data File states that the black paint on 450/17 was glossy.
This is true; later in the war 450/17 lost the Devils Head and was painted all black and the white fields were reduced to thin borders.

Ed

StephenLawson · 20 March 2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Kempf

Brotrob
I’m not sure that this is true but the Data File states that the black paint on 450/17 was glossy. This is true; later in the war 450/17 lost the Devils Head and was painted all black and the white fields were reduced to thin borders.
Ed

Fritz Kempf; 450/17 did not have the thin borders, that was 470/17. The link works ok, when I click on it. But Try this I just brought it up the the first page here. See "Looking for some forum input..."

Kerry Brenstuhl · 20 March 2006, 03:27 PM

I used poly-s scale black overall. I felt that any other black was too much for such a small model. That meant doing all the crosses by mask and air brush as well to maintain the same shade throughout.

Fritz Kempf · 20 March 2006, 03:32 PM

Stephen
Pg 11 in the Data file on the Dr1 shows a picture of Jasta 7 with Jacob’s two Dr1s the first in line is 470/17 all black with white crosses only, no black(except the rudder). Second in line is 450/17 all black, no Devils Head, and thinly bordered black crosses. The one on the fuselage is almost indiscernible because of light overprinting with black dope. The rest of the line-up is all DVIIs. BTW, now the link works, Thanks.

Ed

Kerry Brenstuhl · 20 March 2006, 03:36 PM

For the guns I used a set of eduards spandaus I purchased awhile ago. I kept the receiver and added photo etch to them and then used the jackets and the cross sights to finish them up.

StephenLawson · 20 March 2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Kempf

Stephen
Pg 11 in the Data file on the Dr.I shows a picture of Jasta 7 with Jacob’s two Dr1s the first in line is 470/17 all black with white crosses only, no black(except the rudder). Second in line is 450/17 all black, no Devils Head, and thinly bordered black crosses. The one on the fuselage is almost indiscernible because of light overprinting with black dope. The rest of the line-up is all DVIIs. BTW, now the link works, Thanks. Ed

No this is wrong. I understand what your quoting but I am trying to help you see that it is incorrect.

A. The black one with the white crosses Dr.I is freshly painted.
B. While the black on the second triplane is older and poorer quality on the left side (where the exhaust exited.)
C. Jacobs lost 450/17 in a crash on Oct 3, 1918 and bemoaned its lose in writing. "...my old triplane..." (Jacobs picked up 450/17 in Feb. 1918.)
D. 470/17 was not used by Jacobs until about June 1918.
E. When Jacobs got his D.VII 365/18 he repainted 450/17 a renewed black with the white crosses hence its deep hue.

This misconception goes back to the historian Mr. Wm. Puglisi. The older Herr Jacobs at one time believed that he had at least three triplanes.

But as a young man we find that in his war diary he took the barograph reading charts for his flight and glued them to next to the relavent diary entry. What we did not know until I researched the diary for its publication was that the serial date and a/c type were hand written on these scraps so Jacobs could finish his combat reports in his office at the end of the day. Jasta report went out that next day early.