Corrected Voss Decal Profiles

[mgtaylor]

We checked with Experts Both Sides of the Atlantic. Unforntunaelty Both had conflicting views and both experts were just as accomplished and well repsepcted. Persoanlly I tend to agree with the US expert with regard to an early factory 3-tone scheme represented here by Dan Sans Abott in many posts on the subject. After some more research both profiles published could be found.

SPADA responded to the new information and corrected their original Voss ALbatros D.III Jasta 5 May 1917 Profile. But both views are included we are unable to make a final determination as to which is "correct" except to explain in point of time it is possible both were? The final selction is up to the modeler.

[bobs_buckles]

Would be great to see both done and sitting side by side...

Very nice, indeed.
Bob

[Taz]

mg- It has been more or less established that Voss had two Albatros D.IIIs with similar markings. That is probably the reason for the differences in opinion you are seeing. Send Dan-San a private message and he should be able to fill you in on the details. Also look at earlier threads which cover the subject. So Bob's idea is definitely the ideal solution.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[brian riedel]

Howdy,

I'm certainly no expert, but wouldn't the central radiator wing have the three colors and the offset wing have lilac and green?

Brian Riedel

[mgtaylor]

The Color change was a Directive from the Idflieg (Inspektion der Fliegertruppen) German Air Force Inspector General (SO to speak ?) which Occurred April 1917 to Change the Standard 3 tone Scheme. Red Brown was ordered replaced by Mauve and Pale Green Dropped altogeher. This was done to prevent friendly fire incidents due to recognition problems becuse French machines on the front at that time shared the same earlier colors.

The Radiator Change while the center Raditor was an early D.III feature was changed due to aquired experience with Battle Damage which severly imparied the pilots contorl of the aircraft while hot steam and water was being poured into his face. I am not aware of a specific date of which this occurred although there may be one. I was under the impresion it was someting done in the field or at repair stations when haevy maintence was required and later directly at the factory.

Dan helped out a great deal already which was the main reason for the change in order to remain responsive to new information. The European expert of course held an oppoisite view. SO it is left to the modeler. Iam glad all are taking it so well and instead of choosing sides are inspired actualy to build Both ?

I have no doubt in my former Miliatry Mind Both will be built and an opportunity will exist to display them side by side. I like the scheme and sets so much I think I'll build one !

YOUrs MIke

[Nils]

Very interesting.
And what about red hearts, edged white? How many hearts were there on the plane two or three?
In Albatros Aces of WWI (Osprey) there is a photo of Voss' plane (p.17) without the heart on the top decking. The same situation with photo of the Voss' Alb. DIII in Kaiser's Aces (Kagero) p.21. I haven't find the heart on the top decking either.

[mgtaylor]

I Think you want a color camo and marking experts opinion here? There are several Voss Marking threads in the Board Archives. Search: Voss Albatros The discussions and opinions are an on going topic.

YOurs Mike

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by Nils

Very interesting.
And what about red hearts, edged white? How many hearts were there on the plane two or three? In Albatros Aces of WWI (Osprey) there is a photo of Voss' plane (p.17) without the heart on the top decking. The same situation with photo of the Voss' Alb. DIII in Kaiser's Aces (Kagero) p.21. I haven't find the heart on the top decking either.

On the first there was only two. The following is from a piece I wrote and have included on my website concerning the Profipack kit #8035.

“...With heart, a victor’s luck and an iron will...”

1. From the Eduard drawings their version of Ltn. Werner Voss’ Albatros D.III seems to be a combination of two machines. There is some good current research that says there were two different machines that were marked similarly. He was assigned his first Albatros D.III from the first production series (D.1910/16 - 2200/16) in the early spring 1917 while serving with Jasta 2 (Boelcke.) The upper surface camouflage was three colour. Cowling and spinner were the factory colour of grey green. The pilot’s step was rounded at the top. The radiator was centered on the upper surface of the top wing. Two hearts one on each fuselage side.

His second machine was from the third production series ( D.750/17 - 799/17.) If this machine was already with him when he transferred to Jasta 5 it had not been given these personal markings yet. There are a series of photos with this machine in a tails up position ( The radiator is seen offset to the right of center and so the plumbing was now not directly centered in front of the pilot.) and Ltn. Voss standing on a ladder painting the white of the Haken Kreuz and heart border on the pilot’s left side. The spinner (and later the wheel covers) on this machine were probably red in colour as this was the Jasta 5 unit marking at the time. The upper surface camouflage was two colour (dk. grn, lt. grn). The cowling ring had five small intake vents behind the propeller. This was typical for aircraft in this series. The pilot’s step was square. The radiator was offset to the right of center and so the plumbing was now not directly centered in front of the pilot. Along with the two hearts (one each) on the fuselage sides a third was added on the fuselage spine near the rear of the cockpit (to draw fire away from the cockpit?)

This later machine may also possibly with him when he transferred to temporary commands of Jasta 14 & 29 during the spring and early summer months of 1917. Though holder of the “Blue Max” (Orden Pour le Merite) he had overstepped his chain of command at Jasta 2 and written complaints about his commander, Hauptmann Walz to Armee headquarters. This series of transfers were meant to teach the young reserve leutnant what command means and even a hero needs to understand he has his limitations.

Ltn. des. Res. Werner Voss service record;
Arrived from AFP 1 to Jasta 2 (Boelcke) on 25 Nov 1916.
On 7April 1917 he went on leave.
On 5 May 1917 he returned from Leave
On 20 May 1917 he was transferred to Jasta 5 as temporary commander.
On 10 June 1917 he was relieved of command for the new permanent commander.
On 2 July 1917 he was transferred from Jasta 5 to temporary command of Jasta 29.
On 6 July 1917 he was relieved of command and transferred to temporary command of Jasta 14.
On 30 July 1917 he was relieved of command and transferred to command of Jasta 10.
On 23 Sept 1917 he was KIA flying F.I 103/17 with a total of 48 aerial victories.

One may ask why so many identical markings on these two machines? We know from interviews with Voss’ former mechanic Gefr. Timm (done by historian A. Imrie) that Voss thought the “...Haken Kreuz mit laurels scheme was still too plain. So the heart was added...” As of this writing we don’t know for sure but the answer may come from a regimental moto. “How do they fight?...With heart, a victor’s luck and an iron will.” The national insignia of course being the “Iron Cross.” Ltn. Voss’ former cavalry unit was the Westphalian 11th Hussars. Research continues in the arena.

The correct size fin / rudder unbordered / plain black crosses are taken from an Aeromaster sheet on Albatros fighters. Otherwise the kit decals were used. The heart motif for the fuselage spine is too large and should be the same as the ones on the fuselage sides. Even those could have been a little smaller. Having three of these kits I had plenty of decals to work with. This heart on the fuselage spine was meant to draw fire away from the cockpit. The “Haken kreuz mit laurels” is a little wide but can be used. Below is the second machine.

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by mgtaylor

SPADA responded to the new information and corrected their original Voss ALbatros D.III Jasta 5 May 1917 Profile. But both views are included we are unable to make a final determination as to which is "correct" except to explain in point of time it is possible both were? The final selection is up to the modeler.

The camouflage pattern on this image's centralized radiator version is from the OAW Alb. D.III productions in the Schneidemuhl's examples of the fall of 1917, not the spring 1917 Johannistahl examples. They of course did not have centralized radiators. Voss' machines were both Johannistahl built. Someone may have mis-read the information.

[RAGIII]

I am glad that the manufacturer is at least open to revising their opinions! In the meantime, one needs only to follow the threads on the drome and choose your own belief. As per DSA and Stephen, or as per the older opinions. personally I am with the newer theories, as posted by Stephen,
RAGIII