Lozenge decal test it for all

[Doug Baumann]

what i need is color input. dose any one have the munsel book of colors??? i can get at the library but they wont let me take it out and another way to help is like i have a color stated as goose turd brown you say its a greenish tan or some thing like that and we will go on from there.. from know on i will list the colors for the pattern that we are working on so any one can help thank all for the help Doug

[blimp]

er , what specific colours are you looking for doug ? i have some old c+c journals with AH schemes if they would help . probably other stuff as well .

[Doug Baumann]

thanks blimp and YES it would help me a lot i am going to post the printed pattern for the navel hex it IS just the pattern test the colors are in dispute need INFO ON THE RIB TAPE COLORS AND ANY REAL COLORS OR REAL NAVEL HEX FABRIC

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Baumann

what i need is color input. dose any one have the munsel book of colors??? i can get at the library but they wont let me take it out and another way to help is like i have a color stated as goose turd brown you say its a greenish tan or some thing like that and we will go on from there.. from know on i will list the colors for the pattern that we are working on so any one can help thank all for the help Doug

Hello Doug,

Everybody knows that "GOOSE TURD BROWN" is Goose Turd Brown!

Get a Goose!

I wonder if it's anything like Duck Turd Green?

I don't have any geese here at the "Two Duck Dirt & Chicken Ranch"!

Seriously, I just recently acquired some very excellent Color References that will be of great use to me while studying these camouflage colored patterns. I must first get my computer back to letting me utilize the functions that I am missing since I had my Hard drive wiped clean!
I am looking forward to this.

Thanks, Jay : )

[Doug Baumann]

Great Jay I need all of the help i can get

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Baumann

Great Jay I need all of the help i can get

I was just reading up on Dan-San's Kriegsmarine Hex, at the top of the Forum page (Part 1).
I found a few things that need to be cleared up for us to proceed.

I am being pulled for Dinner time!

I'LL BE BACK, Jay

[Doug Baumann]

i am waiting Jay lol lol how long of a 8 corse meal are you going to have Doug p.s. it will be fun Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Baumann

i am waiting Jay lol lol how long of a 8 corse meal are you going to have Doug p.s. it will be fun Jay

It was all good... and followed with a killer nap!
I'm back.

[FOKKERJ]

The following is from Dan-San Abbot's The Hansa Brandenburg W 29 and German Naval Camouflage -- Part 1

Page #1, 5th paragraph: "The aircraft marking and finishing schemes were set forth in directives established by Seeflugzeug Versuchs Kommando (SVK, Seaplane Testing Command). This organization was subordinate to the Reichs Marine Amt, (RMA, Imperial Naval Office, Admiralty). The SVK was responsible for the establishment of design standards of German Naval Aircraft and the test and evaluation of new designs prior to quantity production. The SVK had established a detailed specification for aircraft which was titled, Allgemeine Baubestimmungen für Seeflugzeug der Kaiserlichen Marine, (ABB, General Construction Requirement for Seaplanes of the Imperial Navy). This document detailed all aspects of the aircraft, airframes, engines, propellers, radiators, instruments, armaments, accessories, hardware, fabric, protective varnishes, finish painting, and marking details." Note #3

Page #2, 3rd paragraph: "On 3 April, 1917, the SVK issued an ammendment to the manufacturers redefining the naval seaplane finish. This revision of the ABB, established the painted Three Color Hexagon Sea Camouflage Scheme. The ABB now specified that all Marine aircraft will have:

(1) The National Insignia, the standardized Black Iron Cross, with a 5 centimeter White border, will be painted on the outer ends of the upper surface of the upper wing, the lower surface of the bottom wing, and both sides of the fuselage and rudder.

(2) The Marine Nummer painted or applied to every part of the aircraft.

(3) All surfaces that are visible when viewed from above, to include the upper surfaces of both upper and lower wings, tailplane, the tops of the fuselage and floats shall be painted in hexagons, 15 centimeters on the sides (30 centimeters in diameter), in three colors: Grey-Blue, Grey-Violet, and Grey-Brown.

(4) All of the surfaces as viewed from the side, the fuselage, rudder, floats, and all struts will be painted Grey-Blue.

(5) All of the surfaces viewed from below will be painted Light Grey.

(6) The fabric under surfaces of the wings and tailplane will remain their natural color." Note 3

Page #2, 4th paragraph: "The next revision of the ABB occurred in April 1918 when the SVK introduced the Three Color Printed linen fabric in irregular hexagons measuring 15.5 x 20 Centimeters and skewed five degrees in the filling direction (width). The three colors were Grey-Blue, Grey-Violet, and Grey-Brown. (Note 5). The directive specified that the upper surfaces of both the upper and the lower wings, the tailplane, the tops of the fuselage and floats were to be covered with the new printed linen fabric. The sides of the fuselage, floats, and all struts were to be painted Grey-Blue. The under surfaces were to be painted Light Blue, while this did include the under sides of the wings, it provided that the fabric under surfaces of the wings and tailplane could remain in natural color. The rudder color was to be White. The National Insignia was changed from the Iron Cross to the new form of the Balken Kreuse, (Beam Cross) adopted by the Luftstreitkräfte on 17 March 1918."

Page #5, paragraph #1: "In March 1991, I received a sample of the three color German naval hexagon printed linen aircraft fabric from Peter M. Grosz for evaluation and study. This study resulted in an article that appeared in the World War I Aero, No. 134, Nov. 1991, Colors & Markings." Note #5
This was exciting inasmuch this was an area that had very little known of or reported. Further the study sample revealed that the hexagons were not regular hexagons of 150 mm diameter as what had been understood from early reports. After attatching the fabric sample to my drawing board and squaring the weave of the fabric of the sample on the drawing board, I found that in measuring the hexagons that in the pattern repeat direction, the warp or length of the fabric, the width of the hexagons was 155 millimeters. With the filling yarns set square with the warp yarns, as the fabric was woven, I found that the vertical center-line of the hexagon was skewed 5 degrees and the vertical height was 200 millimeters. The side flats measured 100 millimeters in length. I then reviewed all of the photographs of German Naval aircraft, I could find in books, magazines, and journals to see if this was common to the three color hexagon printed fabric, and not an aberration. I found this to be true on all clear photographs, see reference 8, page 77 as an example, a crashed Albatros W.4 seaplane and also, the wood fuselage of Fokker D.VII W.N. 2268." Note#12


I need to go ahead and print this out so that I can study and finalize what I am looking at. I copied what I thought was helpful and will condense further to what we need to be concerned with.

Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. I was not able to copy and paste with the click of a mouse, so had to copy word for word, I hope that it is accurate.

P.S.S. Always keep your Umlaüts handy!


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[FOKKERJ]

"painted in hexagons, 15 centimeters on the sides (30 centimeters in diameter), in three colors: Grey-Blue, Grey-Violet, and Grey-Brown."


"Three Color Printed linen fabric in irregular hexagons measuring 15.5 x 20 Centimeters and skewed five degrees in the filling direction (width). The three colors were Grey-Blue, Grey-Violet, and Grey-Brown."

"the width of the hexagons was 155 millimeters. With the filling yarns set square with the warp yarns, as the fabric was woven, I found that the vertical center-line of the hexagon was skewed 5 degrees and the vertical height was 200 millimeters. The side flats measured 100 millimeters in length. "

The following is what I see from the above high-lights:

Painted = 15 Centimeters side length with a 30 Centimeter Diameter or Height

Printed = 15.5 Centimeters side length, 20 Centimeter Diameter or Height

2nd Print (3rd variation) = 15.5 Centimeter Width, 10.0 Centimeter length, and a 20.0 Centimeter Diameter or Height.

The thing I am having a really hard time with is:

Painted 150mm x 300mm
Printed 155mm x 200mm
2nd Print 100mm x 200mm

The first two examples of the Painted and the Printed have close side lengths.
The diameters or heights are vastly different! One would not be symmetrical!
The 2nd Print has the same 1 to 2 ratio as the Painted, but is smaller. I have heard of two different sizes on the Kriegsmarineflugzeugstoff, this makes sense.

Hopefully Dan-San can make light of this for me or anyone else that may have a difficulty understanding this.

Thanks, Jay

P.S. I will move this to another thread if it becomes some kind of Scheißfest!