Palestine - Albatros DVa colour schemes

Welcome everybody!

What I don't understand is: whenever you read about colour schemes for our beloved WWI airplanes, you never see any examples of camouflage patterns used in the Palestine area; most colour schemes are always from the Western Front. Can any of you chums out there give me an idea of what sort of colours/patterns were used on Alb. DVa's, as I understand that they were active in this area?

I'd be most grateful if anyone can help me.

Best Wishes to everyone, kenderoz. *;D

ken,

Go to the www.awm.gov.au website and have a search through their photographic database, there are several example of Jasta 1F/55 Albatros. Dittmars DIII D636/17 looks like it is pretty standard, no embellishment. There is a picture of a crashed Albatros D1791? only it's tail is visible and not burnt or crashed beyond recognition. At a guess it is the Albatros that Steele brought down about a week after Dittmar. There is also a pic of an Albatros from 1918, burnt out that looks like it has a ripple fuselage camou? as well as some sort of fuselage stripe. There is another 7416/17 that has two white and one dark stripe down the length of it's fuselage.




cam

[Ross_Moorhouse]

Kenderoz : Check you email. I sent you 2 pics. One of a D.Va in turkish markings and one of the plane that Cam mentions.

[Intrepid]

Albatros D.Va 7416/17 and D.5359/17 have been identifed by Heinz Nowarra as belonging to Jasta 2F otherwise known as Jasta 300 commonly know to the Germans as "Jasta Felmy"

Albatros D.Va 5360/17 is also a Jasta 300 member, it's pilot Ltn. Victor Haefner (originally Fl. Abt. 304) was a member of Jasta 300.

Albatros D.III 636/17 belonged to Fl.Abt. 300. The two Albatros D.III fighters from Fl.Abt. 300 were not tropical, but standard European fighters from the second production batch.
*These aircraft arrived in June 1917. Steele holed the rad on D.III 636/17 and it was captured with its pilot Ltn. Dittmar on Oct 8 1917. The second Albatros shot down by Steele is unconfirmed in German literature.
* In mid to late Oct 1917 with the arrival of additional German Fl. Abt., sixteen Albatros D.III also arrived. These aircraft were later formed into " Jasta Felmy" named after their first and greatest commander , "the sportsman" Gerhard Felmy
* All tropical D.III fighters were built by O.A.W. *The Ottoman Army bought 31 D.III (O.A.W.) fighters from the last two production batches. The had 2 Albatros D.V and 1 Albatros D.Va. The D.V/D.Va were received from the German "Pasha" units. The Ottoman's also had 3 D.II fighters.

[StephenLawson]

Greetings all!
The old Cross & Cockade USA had some great stuff on the *Turkish & Palistine fronts. *Vol. 11 #2,3,& 4 discusses the Ottoman Air Force and its allocated equipment. Vol. 13 #1, Pp. 15 *spring 1972 has the story of Ltn. Hans Henkel. *In the same issue on Pp.46-59 a nice descriptive piece on Jasta 55. and some errata appeared in Vol.14 #3, P.284. *Also 'Die Deutsche Luftstreitkrafte an der Sinai und Palästina Front 1916-1918. in the title Luftwelt Vol 2 #9, #10, #11 & #12.1935 and Vol 3 #1 & 2 1936.

The Official History of Austrailia in the War of 1914-1918. 12th ed. 1942. *Photos that you may find of value are in the C&C USA Vol.11,#4,Pp.353,359 & 366. *Here's what you were looking for.

Albatros D.Va 5350/17(or was it 5360/17) of Jasta 55 (1F) was photographed in damaged condition *Wings were two toned factory spray with the areas l-r on the top wing appears to be mauve/green/mauve with Twin radiators. *the lower port wing was l-r green mauve. Fuiselage was factory finish with a single dark coloured band around the fuselage. *The port horizontal tail stabilizer is 5 colour lozenge. *The elevator maybe an unbleached linen repair item. The strong sunlight and dark shadows of this shot prevent any further speculation. Other serials were D.7416/17 (with Felmy's or Kunz' Hakenkreuz?) 5348/17 & 5359/17. *See also C&C USA Vol. 12 #4. Pp. 380 & 381. D.Va 5359/17 had a dark fuselage and white spinner, wheelcovers. rudder & fin with post July 1918 crosses. Some of the Jasta 300 seemed to have dark stripe bordered in white from nose to tail down the side of the fuselage.

[Intrepid]

there is also the posibility of 7416/17 being the aircraft of Hermann Kunz.

*I've often though 7416/17 might have been Kunz's aircraft as according to Flanagan he was with Jasta 300.

*He used the swastika with Jasta 7 why not Jasta 300.

I know they might be wrong but the caption of one of the prints on the Australian war memorial of 7416/17 says white/black/white stripe.

[StephenLawson]

I tend to agree with Intrepid that Alb. D.Va 7416/17 may have been assigned at one time to Kunz (former Jasta 7 pilot.) * Hence the 'Hakenkreuz'. *STL

Albatros D.Va 7416/17 and D.5359/17 have been identifed by Heinz Nowarra as belonging to Jasta 2F otherwise known as Jasta 300 commonly know to the Germans as "Jasta Felmy"

Albatros D.Va 5360/17 is also a Jasta 300 member, it's pilot Ltn. Victor Haefner (originally Fl. Abt. 304) was a member of Jasta 300.

Albatros D.III 636/17 belonged to Fl.Abt. 300. The two Albatros D.III fighters from Fl.Abt. 300 were not tropical, but standard European fighters from the second production batch.
*These aircraft arrived in June 1917. Steele holed the rad on D.III 636/17 and it was captured with its pilot Ltn. Dittmar on Oct 8 1917. The second Albatros shot down by Steele is unconfirmed in German literature.
* In mid to late Oct 1917 with the arrival of additional German Fl. Abt., sixteen Albatros D.III also arrived. These aircraft were later formed into " Jasta Felmy" named after their first and greatest commander , "the sportsman" Gerhard Felmy
* All tropical D.III fighters were built by O.A.W. *The Ottoman Army bought 31 D.III (O.A.W.) fighters from the last two production batches. The had 2 Albatros D.V and 1 Albatros D.Va. The D.V/D.Va were received from the German "Pasha" units. The Ottoman's also had 3 D.II fighters.

the second kill of Steele CAN be proven by German sources.

Offizierstellvertreter Paul Leim (the same guy who figures so prominently in front of a well known Kesta 4b SSW D III later in the war) has left a rather complete assessment of his activities on the Palestine front (flying combat missions there from Sept 30, 1917 to March 29, 1918 ).

On October 8, 1917, he reports a combat flight in an AEG C IV with Oberleutnant Daum as an observer (flying time 7:10 to 8:45). He quotes fighter escort ("Jagdschutz") to be provided by two Albatros flown by Lt. von Thuena (Thüna to be more precise, but I´m not sure whether the Umlaut comes through), whom he remembers as the brother of the "famous pre-war flyer" (which indeed is true) and Lt. Dittmar, who was an "Unteroffiziers-Schueler" together with him at his military training in Leipzig-Lindenthal.

The flight got involved with a fight with two "English B.E. twinseaters (sic)", with von Thüna making an emergency landing in German held territory adn Dittmar (as is well known) coming down on the other side of the lines. Leim describes his aircraft also as being hit in combat , but claims to have hit at least one of the British aircraft, which was seen going down OOC (but he did not apply for a victory for this one). He continued the recce mission without escort, a deed for which he received the "Eiserner Halbmond" (Iron Half Moon).

So actually both of Steele´s victory can be proven.

Disgressing slightly, and from memory only, I think the Alb D III flown by Dittmar was NOT a standard machine. While it did not have the twin radiators usually associated with the Mid East Albatrosen, I remember pictures showing an increased capacity radiator of increased height and frontal area - a rather awkward looking construction. Or do I mix up some facts now?

Volker

[StephenLawson]

"Albatros D.Va 7416/17 and D.5359/17 have been identifed by Heinz Nowarra as belonging to Jasta 2 (F) otherwise known as Jasta 300 commonly know to the Germans as 'Jasta Felmy'

I wasn't aware of the designation Jasta 2 (F) can you provide the source reference? I'm very interested.

'...Albatros D.Va 5360/17 is also a Jasta 300 member, it's pilot Ltn. Victor Haefner (originally Fl. Abt. 304) was a member of Jasta 300...'

'...Albatros D.III 636/17 belonged to Fl.Abt. 300. The two Albatros D.III fighters from Fl.Abt. 300 were not tropical, but standard European fighters from the second production batch.
These aircraft arrived in June 1917. Steele holed the rad on D.III 636/17 and it was captured with its pilot Ltn. Dittmar on Oct 8 1917. The second Albatros shot down by Steele is unconfirmed in German literature...'
*
'...In mid to late Oct 1917 with the arrival of additional German Fl. Abt., sixteen Albatros D.III also arrived. These aircraft were later Jan. 1918 formed into " Jasta Felmy" named after their first and greatest commander the sportsman, (Oblt.) Gerhard Felmy...'
*
'...All tropical Alb. D.III fighters were built by O.A.W. *The Ottoman Army bought 31 D.III (O.A.W.) fighters from the last two production batches. The had 2 Alb. D.V and 1 Alb. D.Va. The D.V/D.Va were received from the German "Pasha" units. The Ottoman's also had 3 D.II fighters...'

These two units were unified into one operational Jasta and used both the designations Jasta 55/1 (F) and Jasta 300. After the fall of Aleppo in Oct. 1918 both units were made prisoners of war. In March 1919, when finally demobilized both units Jasta 55/1 (F) and Jasta 300 were amalegmated and listed as Jasta 300.

SEE GERMAN FIGHTER UNITS JUNE 1917-1918 by A. Imrie, Osprey #17 Airwar series, Pp.37-38, 1978.

[Intrepid]

Volker:
Thanks for the info on Steele's second kill. My information on this came from OTF volume 13 number 1 "Wings over Sinai and Palestine" by Dieter Groeschel and Juergen Ladek.
The are quite a few photo's of D.III 636/17 on the Australian War Memorial site.

Stephen:
In regards to Jasta 2F I have found reference to it in three places.
Heinz Nowarra mentioned this unit.

*Dr. Brian Flanagan wrote that the designation of Jasta 2F is not found in any offical records he found repeated *references elsewhere.
Flanagan believed at some time Jasta 300 was renumbered Jasta 2F.

The Jasta Pilots -Ltn d R Guenther Schroth *is listed as serving with Jasta 2F 4Jan 1918 -30Nov 1918