Roden Albatros D.I 1/32

sodium · 4 August 2009, 02:41 PM

Great work, superbe !

philippe

Doug Baumann · 4 August 2009, 10:02 PM

your DIII MER 160hp 170 ps motor looks GREAT

Umlaufmotor · 3 October 2009, 10:24 AM

@mgtaylor

"""(personal request - Can you please show the left side of the Moter and the Water Head Chamber above it ? I see where it attaches to the Front of the Clyinder block but Where (Wo) dose the bottom of the rear pipe attach ?)"""

Hi Mike, is that the right picture what you want?

.......Windsock Datafile No.:100 "Albatros D.I/D.II"

Servus
Bertl

Doug Baumann · 3 October 2009, 10:50 AM

Umaufmotor ,, as far as i know the drawing is a vage one at best look at the radiators placement the tank is a expansion tank ,, number 649 in the drawing is most likely the water pump supply!! the other end of the header tank is the suction side of the cooling system.. but i have some droughts about this drawing header expansion tanks only takes up water when it expans with heat there is only one inlet and the out let is the same as the inlet ??... this tank is the fill tank also because it the highest place in the system.... Doug

mgtaylor · 3 October 2009, 05:03 PM

Dear Dougie

I am with you there. You bring up some good points. But looking at the Diagram I can see how it will work as a crude raditor system. Rememeber this was 1916. And Mercedes was building water cooled car engines. SO this Raditor system yes appears a bit "jerry-Rigged'. But it looks like it works as discribed. NOT to mention now we know waht that dammed instrument face IS above the four Fuel Tank Switches on the right hand side of the cockpit. It's the Darn Water Temp Gauge. Most likely an important gage to keep in sight less you over heat and sieze the engine ! There's no pulling off the side of the road when that happens at 5000 feet !

Umflau your right. You Very Wisely did the correct thing and added the cross member upper pipe-ing that conects the two side raditors for the header pipe to attach to at the rear of the engine.

Only the Kit it self provides no such connection nor cross pipe so I was wondering exactly where the 'locator-pin' connection was with the ROden Header part. But It is a mute point since I see that it is fine if it hangs off in limbo as that connection will really not be seen thru the upper cowl & guns etc. cluttering up the upper deck.

I am very glad you showed me that photo again though becuase it critical has a detail there I missed before. And that is the upside down ' Y ' shaped Wire Brackets whcih secures the Header/Expansion Tank to the Valve Cover assmebiles.

I think that will be easy to scratch with a piece of Brass soft wire. The attahcment points on the header tank where those brackets attach are clearly molded into the expansion tank as weld seams.

Yours MIke

bobs_buckles · 4 October 2009, 02:58 AM

Stunning work on the pit and the engine.
I can't wait to see more.
Cheers,
Bob

Doug Baumann · 4 October 2009, 08:10 AM

hi all let me say one thing more to clear this up in my head

the water flow form the top front cylinder to the tank and then flows to the radiators down thou the radiators the heat is losted to the air and the cooler water is drawn in to the pump number 649 and in to a manifold to each cylinder up through the cylinder to discharge at the top the heated water flow over the top of each cylinder and is discharged it to the tank , the cooler water flows separately to each cylinder and mixs with heated water from the other cylinders at top flowing from cylinder to cylinder and discharged to the tank .. why is it this way each cylinder get it's Owen cooling water and all dump there hot water through the top of the all cylinders .you want cooler water at the pump because of the pressure could cause the water to boil and the pump would cavatate then no water to the motor

here is so thing to thank about the higher the reservoir the less the cavatate that why i think the Germans went to the wing radiator. did they have trouble with the water flow?? i don't know

i will have to look in some boiler book and ask some questions at work to hope fully find out

..... Doug

mgtaylor · 4 October 2009, 08:32 AM

Not exaclty sure about the supply water flow myself there Dougie. Not too concerned cause it worked, but I can tell you why they went to a Wing mounted Raditor in one word "DRAG". Ummm.... Aerodynamic Drag for some that could possibly be wondering ?

Those big Elephant Ear Raditors are very efficent "Speed Brakes" Disrupting the smooth flow of air over the fuselage causing a long trail of circulating turbulent air to be pulled along behind them.

While anything with enough "Power" will "Fly" ie. space shuttle. The engine was thier top of the line at the time. Baring any increase in Hp coming anytime soon, they were very smart to move it flush into the upper wing which also makes sense from a 'coooling" sense becuase High Pressure Air Formed form the "Lift" of the Wing would find a route to pass thru the raditor there giving it great airflow.

Of course we are all familer after that why they moved it off center, becuase when it is Shot Out thru battle damage and/or failure it Spews scalding 3-degree burn water all over said operators (pilot's) face !!

Yours mike

Doug Baumann · 4 October 2009, 09:58 AM

yes you could be right!! but as you know the air flowing through the radiator is slowed down enough to pick up heat the hot air expands and the expanding air creates thrust off setting drag some thing they didn't know in 1916 .. The P 51 just to name a few used this to and advantage the radiator produced enough thrust to add to the top speed of the aircraft were most were happy with enough thrust to off set the drag .. well the idea was borne in WWI by JUNKERS by placing the radiator under the wing and a little back on the iron prototype ... 1 question were would the expanding air go on the top wing over the top right, you have a hight psi area under the wing open to the low psi to the top wing great cooling effect but a loss of wing area !! ... Doug

mgtaylor · 4 October 2009, 10:11 AM

Doug I am not an aerodymanic engineer, but my intution tell me the expansion from the heat exchanged heated air was not enough to appreaably take in to account for 160 hp and less than a 130 kt aircraft.

The addtioanl thrust of the back pressure from the enigne (and Expanding Raditor Airflow?) has to be negligiable until your talking 1200 hp to 2000 hp radial and inline engines. The effect you mentioned by the P-51 may have had something to do with the Fluted chamber it was enclosed in and baffled exhust opening, that would generally be near closed off in flight so as not to over cool the engine in flight. It's used primarly on the ground to open to keep the enigne from overheating when there is little airflow. In flight the airflow has to be restricted on an engine like that to keep it the temp just right.

At least that my understanding, but not to co-opt Umflau's thread here we were orignally talking about Early Alb's ? Of course it may be as well Umflaus work on the interior/engne and firewall forward is SO Detailed and Realistic with ALL the Plumbing, wiring, and instruments it looks as if it will be ready to actually START ?

I mean he even included a line to the Header tank on top of the main fuel tank there on the bulkhead ! Wow !

If I didnt know better I might have thought Bertl Has a second Job working Koloman Meyers Work Shops !! How else could he possibly Know all thses things and get them right !! I have all those WSDF's too and I still haveent figured out each switch, tank, fuel/oil, mag switich like he has going on here ! Youve got a super mind for systems and a fantastic eye for detail and workmanship Bertl ! Beautiful work. Your Builds ought to make a museum Display !

Yours Mike