Characters in Time....

[David_Layton]

Will either of the films, Flyboys or The Red Baron, depict individuals of the lost generation or will they be modern guys in costume?

My take of the trailer, the characters in 'Flyboys' appear to be Gen-X'ers in horizon blue.

What about the 'The Red Baron'?

[Barrett]

I wouldn't give a gnat's eyelash for the chances of period attitudes and dialogue in either flick. Producers/directors/writers just don't think that way.

The only film I can think of in recent years that even made an effort (and a valiant one) was Ride With the Devil, set in the War of Northern Aggression.

[spacecrow]

Suppose though, something akin to the historic figures in "Forrest Gump" could appear. There's enough footage of the aces that technology could advance to that point.

[paule]

I guess Barrett is right.

It's problably an unrealistic expectation.
I don't want to judge "Flyboys" by the trailer and when I look at the cast of "Red Baron" ... they are so young.... I guess they dont now much about this war and know probably even less about the attitude in those days.

There's always room for hope. At least "Red Baron" is not a Hollywood movie but this does not necessarily mean it will be a good movie.

[Gregvan]

Hi,

As for the German actors in "The Red Baron" being so young: I agree they know very little indeed of the period or the attitudes and prejudices of German soldiers in 1917. However, the fellows they are ostensibly portraying were very young as well. We usually has the problem of actors being much older than the characters they're playing. As much as I liked them in "The Blue Max", George Peppard and Karl Michael Vogler were about 37 when the film was made; oddly, Jeremy Kemp looked the oldest to me, but he was about 30. I loved Jimmy Stewart as Lindbergh in "The Spirit of St. Louis", and nobody else could do the part justice - but he was too old. Don't get me started on Rock Hudson in that abominable "Darling Lili"....

Back to David's question. I agree that it's VERY unlikely for a movie to portray real period dialogue, attitude and character in a historical film these days. Modern audiences wouldn't accept such characters or find them admirable or identifiable.They have to be sanitized, given PC attitudes and values and 21st Century qualities in order to appeal to a mass audience. Thus Mel Gibson's character in "The Patriot" is a plantation owner, but of course his black workers are NOT slaves - this makes his character more admirable to a modern audience. In "Braveheart" Mel's William Wallace acts more like a modern soccer hooligan than the Medieval Scottish nobleman he actually was (in light of recent events, perhaps the less said about Mel the better; perhaps we should be glad he's not currently making "The Passion of Richthofen" or something like that).

I agree with Barrett that Ride with the Devil
is a magnificent exception, wonderfully evocative of its period and characters.

Greg

[FliegerJG1]

As I was reading this thread, I recalled that the HBO series "Deadwood" has made an effort to write characters with authentic language. Nevertheless, one critique that I read stated that the words used for swearing in the 1870's were not the same as those that bring shock effect today. Back then, words with religious inferences were the shockers. Words that referred to functions of the body, et cetra were not according to that person's evaluaton.

FliegerJG1

Gentlemen,

Lets face facts, Hollywood isn't in business to preserve history, it simply exploits it, in the never ending quest of the almighty buck.

Although some rare exceptions have been made and at least a semblance of adhering to the " truth " i.e. Lawrence of Arabia ( ? ), managed to make it over all the hurdles and; become a box office smash.

I suppose we should be grateful to Hollywood for two things. 1. In a general
" If you build the field, they will come " anything that gets others seriously interested in W.W. I History, cant be all bad, sort of way. 2. It gives us something to trash instead of each other.

" The War of Northern Aggression ", I knew there was a reason I liked you Barrett.

Jim

[Barrett]

Just checked IMDB. Almost everybody in TBM was 30+ (Ursula being about the youngest).

Oddly, Peppard was almost the oldest (he was 37 and K-M Vogler 38) but as they say in Hollyweird, his boyish good looks allowed him to carry it off. Jeremy Kemp, who looks the oldest, was 31. Ziegel the adjutant and Fabian the balloon shooter were 33 and 31.

Carl Schell (MvR) was 39!

There were 30ish combat pilots, of course. Barracca was c. 35 and Boehme was nearly 40; so were Christiansen and a couple others, IIRC.

But consider the standards:

MvR KIA at 25
Boelcke KIA at 25
McCudden KIFA at 23
Guynemer KIA at 22
Luke KIA at 21
Gontermann KIFA at 21
Lowenhardt KIA at 21
Ball KIA at 20
Voss KIA at 20
Beaulieu-Marconnay KIA at 20
Rhys Davids KIA at 20
Putnam KIA at 19

Remember that in many cases the pilots were in combat 1-2 years prior to their deaths.

[Simba]

'Wizard prang, old boy'.

Yup, nothing ages quite so quickly or so badly as 'fashion', be it slang in speech or the cut of your cloth.

Chin, chin!

[Ginger.]

The British actors playing Yanks in 'Band of Brothers' probably didn't know much about the subject yet carried it off perfectly.
So fingers crossed.