Interesting spanish Fokker?

[Kilian]

http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/c4/86/8933_1.JPG

[Romani]

As I answered Killian PM, I am reposting my answer here:

That's a very rare photograph. As you probably have guessed, it's a Fokker derivative. In Cuatro Vientos museum there's a replica of a Fokker CIII, wich was a derivative of the Fokker CI trainer of 1918, and was built in 1922.

Noteworthy is that the fuel tank was put in the undercarriage fairing to reduce drag.

In Spain it was used as a trainer and had a 220 HP Hispano Suiza engine. It's ironic that a descendant of the Fokker DVII ended up with the same engine as of its enemies. Just like after WWII there were Spanish Messerchsmits with Merlin engines. But I digress.

After the experience building the CIII, the spanish Loring company built the CIV in 1923 (the one in the picture). I don't know what engine was fitted into it, but is much larger. In my photos of the CIII, it has an SPAD like radiator (and an Axial 2-blade propeller)


This one engine is much larger, suggesting 300 HP or more and has a large radiator underslung wich i think i have seen elsewhere.

Other difference with the CIII is that the wheels are wire spokes instead of having covers.

The shape on the wing strut it's a metal leader pennant.

Armament on the CIII was a front mounted Vickers and a observer Lewis. Probably it was the same in the CIV.

No idea about the big box on the sides of the fuselage, but i think it's more likely a improvised external bomb rack. I think bombs more likely than a camera because airplanes in the Morocco campaign were most often used for low level strafing and bombing rather than photo recon.

Only 20 Fokker CIV were built. it was deployed with the 3ª Escuadrilla de Melilla and took part in strafing missions during the campaign of Morocco and the landings of Alhucemas in 1925 (first modern aero naval amphibious landing of history)

Thanks for sharing it. I had never seen it before. I will try to find out more about the CIV.

Regards.

PS Can anyone take a guess about the engine?

[FOKKERJ]

Nice Fokker Kilian. I was just studying a Fokker C.I last night. It was armed with a Spandau and a parabellum. Said it was developed in Holland and flown before the Armistice. Don't know how accurate that information is as I have not seen much on this subject.

Romani, thanks for sharing the information.
I hope that you had a Great Birthday!

FRÖHLICHE WEIHNACHTEN,

[Sreiko]

Nice info Romani I am not sure but I think I have larger image somewhere in my hard. Anyway, for the details you should ask our friend Nico Braas.

[Romani]

Engine is a Napier Lion 12 cylinders in V 450 Hp.

Max speed: 214 km/h
Ceiling: 5500m
Range: 1200 km
Weight empty: 1450 kg, maximum; 2270


Wingspan: 12,9 m. Length 9,2 m. Height 3,4 m.

Weapons: One or two Vickers machineguns 7,7 mm (.303 in) and another two Lewis 7,7 in a Scarff ring.


PS: FokkerJ, thanks for the congratulations, yes, I had a great birthday!

[Ransom E. Olds]

Romani: Are you sure it's a Lion? That had 3 banks of four cylinders, but this looks like a conventional V-12. Perhaps a Rolls-Royce or Liberty? Ransom

[Romani]

Very observant Ransom, I asked around and got the following answer from a guy who knows it all, I translate his response for you:

Regarding the Fokker C-IV , aside of the 20 airplanes built under license by Loring in Spain, another 139 were built in Holland for the air forces of Holland, Argentina, Soviet Union, Italy and the United States

The spanish Fokker didn't have the 450 HP Napier Lion engine, except a single airplane, the prototype, piloted by Bertrus Grase and presented in Cuatro Vientos 23 of February, 1923 in the contest called by the Aviacion Militar. It had been only one month since it (the prototype) had it's maiden flight in HolLand and was moved in haste to Madrid for taking part in the contest, winning it as it was superior to all the other contender airplanes.
A contract was signed between Fokker and Loring to build a series under license.

The airplanes produced by Loring, in spite of its good performance, showed lack of power in their engines, wich weren't the same as in the Dutch version, the 450 HP Napier Lion. Those built by Loring in the Carabanchel factory had a Rolls Royce Eagle of 360 HP.

Another difference was that the radiator was ventral and could be retracted instead of having radiators on the sides of the fuselage.


They were delivered during 1924, forming a Escuadrilla commanded by the Capitan Eduardo Gonzalez Gallarza in the zone Tetuan-Larache.
In early september 1925, the squadron was moved to Melilla to take part in the Alhucemas landing, forming part of a Fokker Group, commanded b the Infante (sort of royal prince) Alfonso de Orleans, with 2 squadrons, commanded by captains Gonzalez Gallarza and Eduardo Azcarraga. In the Alhucemas operations 3 airplanes were lost, returning to the Peninsula in November to form a Reconnaissance Group in Leon, until 1930 when they were struck from service.

Of the 20 aircraft of the series, one was given another different engine a Lorraine also of 450 Hp. The empty weight of the Spanish version was 50 kilos less, performance being the same.


Sources:

-Aviones Españoles desde 1910.Jaime Velarde. Fundacion Infante de Orleans, 1995.

-Aviones Militares Españoles.Salas-Warleta-San Emeterio.Instituto de Historia y Cultura Aerea.

[Kilian]

Very interesting mate If i remember it right i could have gone to Ceuta by Hoovercraft but only when good weather and wind condition was there Are there any naval bases or something in the moroccan enclaves?

[Romani]

One more thing about the photo. The boxes on the sides are certainly external bomb containers. Typical Spanish improvisation.

And some history for Killian.

Originally Posted by Kilian

Very interesting mate If i remember it right i could have gone to Ceuta by Hoovercraft but only when good weather and wind condition was there Are there any naval bases or something in the moroccan enclaves?

The cities of Ceuta and Melilla and the other rocks offshore are the high watermark of the impulse of the Reconquista. They were secured as footholds for a projected expansion into Africa, but the discovery of the Indies changed that.

The main purpose they served was stablishing bases to control the shore and prevent further Islamic invasions, and to counter piracy. Remember that until the mid 17th century, naval warfare in the Mediterranean had to be carried out with oar driven galleys, and these ships had small range and needed numerous harbors along the coast.

It must be noted that those enclaves had nothing to do with the ill-advised bloody and futile colonial adventure of the 1920s (though it was the school of war for the generals and officers of the Nationalist side on the civil war later), wich led Spain to occupy as a protectorate northern Morocco, basically because none of the major European powers before the Great War wanted any other power having control of the strait (England didn't want the France in front of Gibraltar, and neither of them wanted Germany there, so it was a buffer zone)

it's History that dictates borders, not geography, they are as Spanish as the Channel Islands are British, and thus weren't included in the decolonization process. Ceuta used to be Portuguese, after all.

So no naval bases there, not anymore. Anyway, with modern artillery and antiship missiles, control of the two sides of the strait is superfluous.

The old colonial troops of the Moroccan wars, the Spanish Legion and the Regulares (though now being composed of Spanish personnel instead of natives) are still based there.

[Roundel]

Noteworthy is that the fuel tank was put in the undercarriage fairing.

I've seen an illustration of a D.VII with the fuel tank mounted down in the undercarriage struts. The idea was to minimize the damage from an exploding tank. Considering how dope-soaked fabric burned, I can understand why.