Bristol Boxkite

Bullpup · 13 February 2010, 02:57 AM

Hi,

I wonder if anyone has the definitive answer to the question 'When did the Bristol Boxkite first fly?'.

There is no doubt that it was at Larkhill in Wiltshire but, depending upon which source you read, it was either on the 29th July 1910 or the 30th July 1910.

I have always favoured the 29th, for no better reason than it was a Friday. While this is by no means the most burning question of our time, it has been bugging me for years and made more irritating by the fact that the organisation behind the BAC centenary celebrations are now quoting the 30th July.

If you can help me scratch my aviation itch I would be happy to hear from you.

Regards,

JC

Terrencejones · 13 February 2010, 02:34 PM

Hi JC,
Terrible those itches

Nothing definitive I,m afraid. You may have already read these, but thought I would post them anyway.

The Birth of Military Aviation- Britain, 1903-1914- Hugh Griver 1st pub. 1997
"There had been considerable excitement at the launching of the first Bristol Boxkite on the site on 30th July 1910 for instead of preliminary hops, in anticipation of which witnesses had situated themselves in prone positions on the ground, the aircraft immediately climbed to an altitude of 150ft."
page108
witnesses from the War Office?

British Aircraft 1809-1914 Peter Lewis, 1st pub. 1962
"Nicknamed The Boxkite, assembly of the machine was completed at Larkhill, Salisbury Plain, on 29th July, 1910, and made its first flight on the following day"
Page,129

British Aviation-The Pioneer Years, Harold Penrose, 1st pub.1967
"By the end of July the Boxkite had been erected, and the Darracq from the discarded Zodiac installed. This time, rather than trust the groping efforts of Sydney Smith, Sir George obtained through his agent Stern, the services of a French pilot, Maurice Edmond, who was expert with Farmans. In the still of early morning he made the first flight" Page 119
Though no date given, I thought the comment "still of the early morning" was interesting.

Hope that has helped a little.

Cheers Terry

PS. A lot of flying seem to take place on weekends and bank holidays, could there have been a stipulation in the use of some places or even a general ruling that flying couldn't take place during week days? just a thought

Bullpup · 13 February 2010, 03:35 PM

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the response. The itch is still there but it's a little less active now.

Your thoughts on the possibility of weekday restrictions are interesting and something that until now I had not considered; my own thinking was based on the precept that Friday would make it easier to tempt the press of that time to attend and for the Boxkite flight to make it into the weekend papers. I will certainly explore the restrictions possibility.

I have to admit to not having read Hugh Griver's book but I am certainly adding it to my reading list.

Looks very much as though the 30th is creeping ahead on points

Cheers,

JC

Terrencejones · 13 February 2010, 08:45 PM

Hi JC,
Couldn't find anything to support a weekday restriction, probably a red herring.
A.V.Roe had restrictions at Brooklands, he could only fly at dawn as he had to remain out of sight and not get in the way of the normal activities

That's probably where I got that idea from.
The witnesses at Larkhill where more than likely soldiers based localy. Sir George White was mainly interested in gaining a military deal and deliberately chose the site. His interest in the news papers was perhaps of less importance to him. Had a read through some Harry Harper stuff to see if he could shed some light on the exact day, but he only mentions The Boxkite at the Lanark meetings in August.
I wouldn't discount the 29th just yet

Will keep digging.

Terry
PS.sorry JC Just noticed the auther's name is Hugh Driver not Griver.

Bullpup · 14 February 2010, 01:58 AM

Hi Terry,

Thanks for all your efforts with this. I've been trolling away trying to find newspaper articles covering the event but so far to no avail -- closest I've come is an account of a Bleriot flight from Bournemouth to the New Forest on the 30th. Ye Gods -- the skies were crowded even then!

Don't get any blisters from digging to much and thanks for the update on Mr Driver.

Cheers,

JC

Kirk R. Lowry · 14 February 2010, 11:51 AM

Hi There JC

Well, Bristol Aircraft Since 1910 by C.H. Barnes reports the following -

"... No.7 was taken to Larkhill on 29 July 1910, assembled overnight, and flown the next day to a height of 150 ft. at the first attempt by Edmond, to the astonishment of beholders who had taken up prone positions on the ground in order to detect the first glimmer of daylight between the grass and the wheels".

I think that the latter date is likely, after all, the aircraft was not flown to Larkhill, so it would seem reasonable to assume that the former day was that of delivery and construction.

Salut!
Kirk

Bullpup · 14 February 2010, 12:18 PM

Hi Kirk,

Thanks for taking the trouble to research this. It looks like I will have to take the 30th as the most accurate date -- but, just like politicians, it may take me a while to concede defeat, so to speak!

At least the itch is greatly diminished.

Cheers,

JC

Terrencejones · 15 February 2010, 02:24 PM

Hi JC,
I think you are right, it does look as though the 30th is probably right. Couldn't find anything to support Friday

Do you know what the celebrations are going to be like? Be nice to see a few replicas of those old machines grace the air

Cheers, Terry

Bullpup · 15 February 2010, 03:08 PM

Hi Terry,

Yes, I think the 30th has it! Not a disappointment, though, because the object of the exercise was to find the definitive date and, thanks to the efforts of your goodself and Kirk, I think we have done that.

As to the celebrations, they are, sadly, typically British and far too low key. The following is what the official BAC2010 web site says are the current proposals (as a newby I cant post the link but the usual three letters and a dot in front [not to mention the co and uk following] should locate it):

"Media launch on 19 February 2010.

Extensive website providing background information, news of what's on, online games and puzzles, film and audio clips, and children's activity sheets live from 19 February.

Creative workshops for schools in Bristol and South Gloucestershire from March.

Exhibitions organised by local heritage groups including Olveston Parish in March and Frenchay Village from April.

New publications including a Book of Aviation Wonder featuring comic strips, puzzles, illustrated stories, and things to make and do published May.

Talks, debates and conferences including RAES Barnwell Lecture 7 May and sessions in the Bristol Festival of Ideas.

Parade and rally of Bristol cars and vintage Bristol vehicles 13 June.

Multi-faith service of celebration at Bristol Cathedral 10 July.

Major exhibition at Bristol's City Museum and Art Gallery from 18 September to 28 November.

Centenary dinner 12 November.

Volunteering opportunities.

Engineering challenges and competitions.

Flight-themed activity at Bristol Zoo Gardens, At-Bristol and Ashton Court, among other sites.

(final programme subject to ongoing funding applications and sponsorship raising)"

Not much mention of flying -- I can't imagine any aircraft taking off from within the Zoo gardens, although Ashton Court is noted for its annual balloon fiesta -- they seem to have lost the plot!

My thanks, once again, to yourself and Kirk for finding the time to research and reply.

Blue skies and tailwinds forever!

Cheers,

JC