Rhinebeck Museum trouble

[AAC Cadet Leader]

EricGoedkoop Posted on Sep 5 2004, 05:30 AM

IF that was what they were up to, and IF they're as smart as this theory requires them to be, why on God's green earth would they do so many things to call attention to themselves? As AAC pointed out, no one's counting but this thread has reached a ridiculous length,

Ha!

I agree with EricGoedkoop on remaining skeptical as to this theory of ORA as a chop shop. It's just too close to public eyes and such discerning eyes as ours, here on this forum. If they have been following this thread, then they know we are watching their every move - and that we have a great photographer documenting the changes at ORA.

However, maybe tazbat's theory is possible. Someone pointed out a page or so back that some of the regime own their own private airports (presumably with hangars). This might be something to pay attention to. Just another thought for the chalkboard.

[SteveS]

Originally posted by EricGoedkoop+Sep 5 2004, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EricGoedkoop @ Sep 5 2004, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-tazbat@Sep 5 2004, 02:01 AM
[b]How very interesting this is about stealing planes and flying them nearby to Connecticut to dissassemble it. And, then bring it back to Rhinebeck after it had been disguised and re-registered. . . . I believe the board was aware of the situation. They hired GD back after he had been fired. . . .

It is obvious that there is something not-quite-right with DeMarco and his continued employment, but in my opinion he's more a sympton than a cause. Somehow, he's worked it so he's got full run of the place and he's using it to every advantage for as long as he can.[/quote]
Right you both are.
How could the board not know what went on and then condone it by keeping him on. In my own opinion, I don't think the entire board had knowledge of the crime before the theft. A case of GDM seeing a chance and them taking it. Unfortunately he got caught. Has it ever been brought to light his accomplices? Surely, you need help in dismantling and transporting a plane. There was talk of who did or might have helped. Anything further known?
As for the board not distancing themselves from GDM afterwards, way bad judgement call. There must be a hell of a good reason why he is protected by some board members.

Salute,
Steve

[Vivian Vamp]

I don't think the chop shop idea is probable for two reasons-

1. Antique airplanes are each too unique, each one gains its own idiosyncracies over the years, repairs, restorations, it would be hard to sell one without people figuring out where it came from, not to mention the paperwork problems, registration, etc. There are only small quantities of the desirable airplanes out there, not like Mustangs (the car) or Corvettes. It's my understanding that this was how the stolen Cub was discovered, the former owner, the victim of the theft, visited ORA and started looking at the Cub like any of us would, except he noticed repairs exactly like the ones on his missing airplane.

It is done occasionally, but you would have to use a pretty common airplane (the Cub thing almost worked), and not do it too much, which brings me to point 2- There isn't enough money in it, especially for guys who have the kind of funds that these guys have, and certainly not enough to make it worth the risk of getting caught. Unless you're a little psychotic.................

Some perspective on the actions of the jerks on the board, most of them apparently don't know much about computers, and never considered that there might be such a thing as an internet forum like this one that could shine a bright public spotlight on their actions.

[tazbat]

Honest!!!
It is only a theory and theories were designed to be changed.

The line of thought is that all the elements necessary for a front to sell pilfered aircraft are present. I don't mean just any aircraft, but rare and expensive artifacts. Such stolen planes may not even be in top condition at the time of theft, but restored and then put on exhibition. In some cases they may even be in poor condition, even original. Sometimes that makes them valuable. (Like a man I know who recently acquired an all original 1930 Excelsior-Hendereson motorcycle in very poor condition He didn't pay much for it, only a couple grand. He then put it on the market and sold it in the range of 20 grand. He did nothing other than find it, buy it and sell it. Yes... his transaction was legitimate.)
Although the stolen Cub wasn't old enough to really qualify for display in the museum, yet if it had been displayed, who would have realized that it was a stolen plane.
People secretly buy famous paintings to add to their collections, some worth millions. The famous painting "The Scream" just recently was stolen in a broad daylight raid on the museum where it hung. You can bet it will be hanging on someones wall real soon if it isn't already. And if the person who now owns it, didn't do the stealing, they certainly paid a small fortune for it, maybe even a large one. A common thread amongst people with fortunes and fame, albiet a small thread (fortunately) is their disdain for the law. In other words, they feel their stations in life justify whatever means they use to accomplish their desires. Laws are for the masses that are beneath them.

As for the board, they have certainly demonstrated some of the classic attitudes of a unique class with a greater measure of wealth and power than those around them. They have certainly acted like the vultures I associated them with in an earlier post. ORA sin't their livelihood as it was for Cole and so many others. They already have too much money. If this theory is close, they might only go for exceptionally rare aircraft with buyers outside the US. Since the beginning of a new mellinium, last century antiques of all types have become the focus of a renaissance in acquisitions. It isn't a unique phenomenon. The same happened in the last century, especially with items associated with the taming of the West.

For the Chalk Board, a group of people in charge of caring for an entity who display all the vulturistic (a new term?) attitudes as the board has with Cole's ORA Musesum and Air Shows, frankly can be capable, as an organized group, of commiting any type of crime. Organizations do it all the time, all over the world, with less cover and all for the sake of... MONEY and POWER.

Enough said, and I promise I won't bring it up again. But I might consider writing a screen play around this idea.

Salute!

This is what I want to see!!!

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Henry Posted on: Aug 14 2004, 07:37 AM
As to the Camel - it was DeMarco's responsiblity to maintain the Aerodrome planes that he flew. He insisted that ORA do an away show in Australia in 2003 which included the Camel. After the plane returned, he tried to give orders to have that plane worked on, but there were other air show planes already being serviced. The Camel was evaluated, was pronounced totally un-airworthy and would require a major restoration. From reports of others who have visited the Aerodrome, that status has not changed. It appears that DeMarco is not at the Aerodrome (who knows what he's doing now) but apparently not upholding his responsiblity to service the airplanes that have been assigned to him.

SteveS Posted on: Aug 19 2004, 02:10 PM

New Zealand?
What's in New Zealand? Isn't he chief pilot/head mechanic here at ORA? Takes off during show season?

Um, by the way, is GD back from Australia yet? I mean, New Zealand?? And why did he go there early in this ORA airshow season?

[SteveS]

Originally posted by tazbat@Sep 5 2004, 01:07 PM
[b]Honest!!!
It is only a theory and theories were designed to be changed.

The line of thought is that all the elements necessary for a front to sell pilfered aircraft are present. I don't mean just any aircraft, but rare and expensive artifacts.

Wouldn't we all like to know what really went into those dumpsters when they cleaned up preseason? Bet it was more than just plain garbage destined for a landfill. Or what was said to be garbage that was diverted elsewhere. Pretty high security ORA's garbage must be to make sure the field is locked down to "clean house".

Salute,
Steve

I won’t mention any names, but here are the facts that I know about the Stolen Cub –

It was stolen from a friend of Ken Cassens (OK, almost no names) in 1993, the same year Cole died. The night it was stolen the hangar door the airplane was kept in was forced open. The plane was then flown to Caanan, CT and disassembled with help. Sometime after this it was loaded into a truck for transport to Florida. Apparently, someone (we won’t say who) was very upset that the truck was late. Additional help was secured for truck loading and transport. It is not known if any of these ‘helpers’ knew what was going on or if it was a stolen plane destined for a ‘chop shop’ down in Florida. In 1998 (same year as the first board uprising) the FBI came to the Aerodrome and wanted to speak at length to one of the pilots (remember, no names). Eventually, after a court appearance (the details of which are of public record and were posted by Paul Revere earlier in this thread) the pilot plea-bargained and “paid his price to society” by purchasing the altered plane from the owner.

[Curtiss Jenny]

It is not known if any of these ‘helpers’ knew what was going on or if it was a stolen plane destined for a ‘chop shop’ down in Florida.

It is easy to see how ‘the pilot’ can spin his web. Being an accomplice to stealing aircraft is no laughing matter. It is a Federal Offence, literally! The helpers are now in the position of being blackmailed; they will say or do anything to protect him. The Aerodrome probably is not a front for a chop shop. Speculation – could the Aerodrome be used once in a while as a stopover? Perhaps that is why certain workers were discouraged from keeping their planes at ORA – the hangar space was needed for other reasons. The regime may choose to ‘look the other way’. They also had an incentive to “clean house” of any knowledgeable eyes and ears.

[tazbat]

SteveS [/b]
Wouldn't we all like to know what really went into those dumpsters when they cleaned up preseason?

Good observation SteveS.
I have been throughout most parts of Rhinebeck over the years, with exception of two of the hangars across the runway. Despite the fact that many pieces of the collection aren't functional, they certainly wouldn't be deemed trash. Therefore, if they are allegedly throwing away "Junk", it is to bad no one is able to confirm that no pieces of the Junk artifacts leave the premises.

AS to GD... The story I heard is he was in Australia and New Zealand for the shooting of a King Kong remake. My guess is the Camel was used in it also. This is assuming my source was accurate. I checked and a remake of King Kong is indeed being shot currently in New Zealand. Maybe the board hired out the service of GD and the Camel. If so, and they don't put it back into service at ORA, I would say add another item to the list for deviating from the mission statement. It would also be a breach of charter for not properly maintaining an item of the collection. Actually, I think quite a number of formerly flying aircraft, now sitting static, come under that breach of rule.

EricGoedkoop

[b]Cole preferred his aircraft to be as authentic as possible, but he was no stick in the mud about it. He bought a (now legendary) Warner-powered Tripe with brakes and turned it into an integral part of the Sunday show - there are plenty of stories about it on the other Rhinebeck thread. And what about that red metal Demoiselle he used to have?

Sorry! I didn't know about a Sopwith Tripe. What happened to it? I never saw one since my first visit to Cole's ORA. And I realize he was more interested in flying exhibits than being obsessed over total accuracy. As far as sacrificing (putting them away in hangars without any care for preventing deterioration) already flying vintage aircrafts for the SPAD, I find it hard to believe Cole would have made that choice. I was also unaware of a metal Demoiselle (may have read about a long time ago). I may be incorrect since the DavisD2W flew one season after arrival of the SPAD, which was in 2000. The Curtiss-Wright was on the line and may have flown in 2001. The Aeronca C2 was retired, I believe in 2000.

This is what I want to see!!!

[Richard King]

You are right about them wanting to get anyone that has past affiliations with the aerodrome out of there. They have been dunning me to get my Ercoupe out of a hangar that I built and paid for myself, with Cole' s urging and blessing. I have three different letters from two lawyers telling me that they were going to evict me, but when they heard of the big party we were going to have as part of the removal process they cooled it.

Yesterday I received still another letter from their lawyer saying that I owe them $5000 for hangar rent and furthermore it will continue to accrue at $8.75 per day. As many of you know I came to Rhinebeck in 1959 and helped physically and literally build the place. Cole encouraged me to build a hangar of my own to use as a sort of reward for my loyalty and devotion to ORA, for as long as was around.

It is amazing that they want to charge me rent for my own hangar-a hangar that I am barred from using under threat of arrest. The letter was signed byTerry McClinch, the millionaire who has nothing better to do with his time including attending meets at ORA that he is unduly elected President of.

I will be contacting, through my lawyer the NYS Attorney General's office to get advice on where do we go from here. They sure do want us out of there, only they're hitting on the wrong person when they challenge me.

Keep up your dialogues, you have a lot of the dirtiness figured out and one of these days the AG's office, perhaps now, will finally take action against this fraudulent BOD.