Rhinebeck Museum trouble

Most of you probably think I give the Board too much credit, but I can still see a valid point of view in there somewhere. It gets obscured because they're such jerks about everything, but it's in there.

Eric - you do play a great devil's advocate, but with the exception of Dean Ryder, who is extremely intelligent but stiff-necked, you do give the BOD too much credit. If the BOD had stated that they were opposed to the project because of the hangars needing repair, the crew would have listened to that, but that was not the case. The BOD never accepted any long-range plans that addressed the hangars.
Fund-raising is a process that builds upon itself; one step at a time. You set one small goal, raise the money, accomplish that goal. Then you try a little bit larger goal, expanding the population base of contacts. Then you publicize when that goal is met. People give money to winners. The Aerodrome was accomplishing these small steps, and if the Spirit was completed and finished, the next project maybe could have been the hangars. A lot of influential people in Westchester and Fairfield countires were watching the Spirit project. The BOD really committed fund-raising suicide with their disasterous decisions, and only their removal will bring back these potential backers, who are also aware of this thread.

[EricGoedkoop]

Originally posted by Pat@Sep 15 2004, 03:35 PM
[b]The BOD really committed fund-raising suicide with their disasterous decisions

Well, sure - but name something they've done RIGHT.

I'm not defending them, per se. Running something like ORA - and running it well - always takes more dedication, intelligence and creativity than most of us possess. It's hard. These guys are in a challenging position, they inherited a little bit of a sticky situation and made it a whole lot stickier, and from everything that's happened and everything we know about them as individuals and a group, I just don't think they're properly equipped for the job.

[SteveS]

Originally posted by EricGoedkoop@Sep 15 2004, 02:24 PM
[b]

The reason they were opposed to it might be that it took a whole lot of time, effort and money and diverted resources away from the many, many other things that need to be done. I can see several reasons why the Spirit could have been construed as a bad idea from the beginning.

There's a well-know axiom in fundraising that "there's only so many times you can go to the well." Check out the list of donations to the Spirit on the ORA site. There's quite a lot of donated historical items, materials and services tied up in that plane, in addition to the sheer man-hours that went into it. All of that is now not available for anything else at ORA and never will be. Comments have been made here to the effect of "I couldn't donate very much to the Spirit, but I donated what I could." From an objective point of view, could your donation - and the countless others - have been used more effectively to a different purpose?

Yes, Eric,
I understand what you are saying but we gave to the "Spirit Fund" to have the Spirit built. Money, rare parts and services were donated especially for the Spirit.

There was other fundraising to deal with other concerns. Here is the highlights of the "2002/2003 Rhinebeck Aerodrome Museum Campaign Appeal"
(taken directly from the flyer)

Completion of Fokker Triplane Refurbishment
New Standard D-25 rebuild
Completion of Spirit of St. Louis project
Monocoupe 113 restoration
New Structures to better house the Collection
Continued upgrades to exhibit and overall facility
... and more!

I brought this up many pages ago. Notice that there was no fundraising appeal this year? Don't need or want anybody's money? Or don't care?

How many of us put additional cash in to this milk can?



Here is how it was displayed last Sunday in the Ryan hanger behind a rope. A bit insulting if you gave, isn't it? How hard would it be to carry it up the hill and put it in front of the Spirit. I'm sure it's empty. Why? In my opinion, why collect money when you have no intention of finishing the Spirit.

Salute,
Steve

Originally posted by EricGoedkoop Posted on Sep 15 2004+ 10:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EricGoedkoop Posted on Sep 15 2004 &#064; 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
"there&#39;s only so many times you can go to the well." Check out the list of donations to the Spirit on the ORA site.

My understanding from letters here, is some funds were never utilized fully when the leaders stopped the work. Besides the original reason, I am positive the leaders stopped the project to add insult to Ken&#39;s dismissal. They show no respect for what is good.
<!--QuoteBegin-(watchman)
[b]The Spirit was the major focus of work in the ORA shop for a long, long time.[/quote]
Most of the flying collection is made of replicas. I am guessing many Cole built from nothing to finale. He knew the issues about building reproductions. Remember GD? Where was he for the last two or three seasons? Is he not the chief mechanic of Rhinebeck? His absence could be as much as 33% of mechanical force (of the staff mechanics).

It is my opinion, the leaders had and still have hidden agendas yet to be discovered.

[EricGoedkoop]

Originally posted by demoiselle@Sep 15 2004, 04:22 PM
[b]My understanding from letters here, is some funds were never utilized fully when the leaders stopped the work.

Yep - about &#036;10,000 by some accounts. Does anyone know if that&#39;s cash in the bank or what&#39;s left of the grant?

I am positive the leaders stopped the project to add insult to Ken&#39;s dismissal.

Someone correct me if I have it wrong, but I believe they halted the project before they fired Ken. I&#39;m sure the two are related, but I&#39;m guessing there was some back-and-forth after the first and before the second.

It was a great idea. It was also, Mssr. Palen&#39;s idea and he knew very well what the public would enjoy. . . . Most of the flying collection is made of replicas. I am guessing many Cole built from nothing to finale. He knew the issues about building reproductions.

Cole Palen was brilliant in his own way, but he wasn&#39;t infallible. Remember the Deperdussin?

History proved that the Spirit was not the deathtrap that the yellow journalists and Paul Richards make it out to be, and I&#39;m no pilot, but it wouldn&#39;t be my choice to fly out of a tiny grass field in front a crowd of people. I mean - there is a gas tank in your face and no way to see what&#39;s in front of you save a periscope. I&#39;m sure the thing is really a lot safer than it seems; it just doesn&#39;t strike me as a great choice for the conditions at ORA. Hey - what do I know?

Ultimately, ORA doesn&#39;t strike me as the right place for a replica built to Cassens&#39; stunningly high standards. The thing is an absolute work of art and a masterpiece of reproduction. I have to agree with Coughlin - I don&#39;t think Cole would&#39;ve built it that way. It follows logically to question whether or not the Spirit project as it was executed was truly consistent with furthering Cole&#39;s vision and honoring his legacy.

Like I said Demoiselle, there was nothing for 15 minutes, though you are correct in saying there was something-but there are times when even something is nothing-Pierre loop-de-loop reading from a script that was read with all the excitement of two frogs sitting on a lilly pad. That was nothing as well.

Lets face facts nothing has been worked on since the Spirit.The spirit was moved to front row of the main hanger because thats what people want to see the spirit.The b.o.d knows thats what people want to see thats why they also put the wings back on the Camel to keep us happy.Eric you say to much attention has been devoted to the spirit and not towards other planes nothing was done at all last winter the spirit is almost done at least look at the pictures the spirit could be done soon. Nobody there is qualified to finish it.Bottom line.If ORA is shut down like it was last winter i dont know what to expect next year if anything they didnt fix anything throughout the season or last winter and look how it refleckted the show.The spirit went from the airshows number one attraction to the museums number one attraction , how long before the b.o.d tries to sell the spirit.Most likely this winter.Go ahead Eric protect the b.o.d.

[EricGoedkoop]

Originally posted by mattyb712000@Sep 15 2004, 07:43 PM
[b]Lets face facts nothing has been worked on since the Spirit.The spirit was moved to front row of the main hanger because thats what people want to see the spirit.The b.o.d knows thats what people want to see thats why they also put the wings back on the Camel to keep us happy.Eric you say to much attention has been devoted to the spirit and not towards other planes nothing was done at all last winter the spirit is almost done at least look at the pictures the spirit could be done soon. Nobody there is qualified to finish it.Bottom line.If ORA is shut down like it was last winter i dont know what to expect next year if anything they didnt fix anything throughout the season or last winter and look how it refleckted the show.The spirit went from the airshows number one attraction to the museums number one attraction , how long before the b.o.d tries to sell the spirit.Most likely this winter.Go ahead Eric protect the b.o.d.

The Spirit could be done soon, and if they halted when they did in the name of "cutting their losses" then they&#39;re just plain stupid. It&#39;s rather too late, they&#39;ve got nothing to show for it now, and if the firing of Ken and Scott is related back somehow to their decison to stop the project then they shot themselves in the OTHER foot by losing the chance to have the Spirit finished AND the guys who would be working on other things now. With the number of aircraft recently crashed, retired or sent off-site for work, and nothing new added to the lineup since the SPAD, the Airshows would&#39;ve been a little weak this season no matter what. I believe the past years&#39; focus on the Spirit is part of the reason for that, but at this point it would&#39;ve been better to at least have the Spirit done and on the field than sitting in pieces collecting dust.

I&#39;m assuming that former Board members - those that have resigned or been removed - were in favor of the project and would have fought to continue it. I&#39;m also assuming that those opposed to the project knew what a fight it would be and waited until they had the power to take unilateral action. While some of the current "anti-Spirit" group have served on the Board for years, it wasn&#39;t until the second half of 2003 that the Board was reduced to its current configuration. And it was in 2003 that the brakes were put on the Spirit.

These guys are cowards. They&#39;re petulant and self-righteous. They&#39;re not good managers. Some of them have probably been harboring a grudge against the Spirit project for a long time and couldn&#39;t wait to be in the position to shut it down, whether that decision still made any sense or not. They have ideas about how ORA should be run that go directly against what Polapink, Cassens, Mackenzie, Hare, and who-knows-how-many other people thought, and even if they&#39;re right and the other folks are wrong, they have no idea how to handle conflict, resolve differences or compromise.

I&#39;m not "protecting" them - I don&#39;t even know what that&#39;s supposed to mean, exactly - but at this point I don&#39;t disagree with what the evidence indicates their objectives are. I do disagree with how they&#39;re trying to reach them. It&#39;s kinda like the Spirit itself: good idea, bad execution.

[EricGoedkoop]

And Matty -

I wouldn&#39;t at all be surprised if they wound up selling the thing. It&#39;s a treasure; if they decide to unload it let&#39;s hope it ends up somewhere where it CAN be finished and flown.

Eric G- If I understand NY Fundraising rules correctly, the BOD can&#39;t sell the Spirit. The board would have to offer a refund to each and every person who donated to the project. The donating public was promised a flying airplane, originally scheduled for 2002. Even Lindbergh&#39;s daughter Reeve donated to the plane and expressed how she hoped one day for the opportunity to fly in it.

The Spirit fund was a restricted fund for that plane, just as the funds for the Ryan Hangar were restricted for that project. Ken and Scott could not have rebuilt the hangars, a construction team is needed for that, so their working on the Spirit would not have affected the building of new hangars.

The other pilot/mechanics were to work on the planes that they fly in the shows, but during at least the winter of 2002-3 the board only paid some part-time hours out to just one pilot. Cole used to employ more mechanics, and worked on planes in Florida during the winter. Understand that these guys did not make much money to begin with, and still donated their own time. Ken was on the &#39;Payroll&#39; until 5:00, but often could be found in the shop working until 11 p.m. on his own time. Ken also had other responsiblities as groundskeeper, and was willing to assist others who needed a hand, not to mention answering questions to anyone who came to the shop.

You mention the execution as being "too good" for the Aerodrome. Perhaps Cole would not have built the Spirit to such exacting standards. ORA is no longer a personnally owned hobby, it is a museum charged with educating and demonstrating to the public the techniques of aircraft construction of the time. Questionable workmanship cannot be tolerated. If you were building a plane that you personally were going to fly, I don&#39;t think you would feel Ken&#39;s &#39;execution&#39; of the Spirit is too good.

As to your question off forum, I&#39;ve contacted a friend and will get back to you.