Rhinebeck Museum trouble

[Sandy Spigot-Colon]

Originally Posted by tazbat

ORA is running out of rotary powered aircraft, the one item that for decades attracted so many people and kept them returning. For years, ORA was the only place on the face of the earth where you could see planes powered by rotary engines, and regularly every weekend during the air show seasons. And even when other living museums started up and flew their one or two rotary aircraft, Cole was flying three, or more. ORA has probably flown more varied rotary aircraft, than any other museum in the world, and maybe more than all of them together. But, look at it now...

Tazbat,
I think you need to check that statement.
The organisation which occupies a small field in Bedfordshire has been regularly flying rotary powered aeroplanes since Richard Shuttleworth started The Collection prior to World War Two.
Maybe not every weekend but extremely regularly during the Summer months.
You may not regard the home counties of England as on the face of the Earth but I do.
I'd also dispute the numbers too.
Yesterday we had the following...
Blackburn Monoplane (50HP Gnome)
Bristol M1.C (Le Rhone)
Sopwith Pup (80LeRhone)
Sopwith Triplane (Le Rhone)
AVRO 504K (Le Rhone)

Also in the past we've had others too.
A Gnome mono in a Nieuport 28 springs to mind.

Some very nice French people I know at La Ferte Alais might have something to say about your rational also.

Have you ever thought of casting your net wider and travelling?

S S-C.

[Der Grüne Flieger]

Dear S S-C,

In looking for a superlative to illustrate his point, I'm sure you can understand that Tazbat didn't mean to denigrate the efforts of your fine establishment.

The ORA is a national treasure and many forum posters have been lucky to visit the place while Cole was alive. We somehow feel a sort of ownership over it. Therefore, the problems that seem to spring daily from there and are discussed on this forum are very disturbing to us.

Phil

Originally Posted by tazbat

ORA has probably flown more varied rotary aircraft, than any other museum in the world, and maybe more than all of them together. But, look at it now...

[tazbat]

I am most glad to stand corrected Sandy. Please pardon my erroneous statement. Indeed I am not as well traveled as in my earlier years. If I could, I would love to visit the places you mentioned.

I never intended to minimize the efforts of my English and Continental Brethren.

Humble apologize to all...

Salute!
Sandy

[Sandy Spigot-Colon]

Tazbat.
No worries.
We just don't like to feel that we're bypassed.

Like you, I wish ORA would take it's rightful place back among the top three places in the World for early aviation.

Old Warden, La Ferte Alais and Old Rhinebeck.

There aren't enough of us to either fall out or see one of these places fall.
To hear the hum of a rotary and smell the glorious scent of burnt castor is an experience all too few people get the chance to know.

Cheers
S S-C.

[The PIPE]

Dear Fellow ORA Lovers:

The PIPE Here once again...this coming Saturday I'm heading out to Red Hook, NY to get BACK in touch with some of our favorite people that knew Good Ol'Cole himself...at the Cole Palen Memorial free flight meet...!!!!

The recent posts about the rotary engined aircraft flown by equally wondrous places to Old Rhinebeck as Shuttleworth (which was the most likely inspration for Cole to create ORA in the first place), and La Ferte Alais, got me thinking about which rotary powered aircraft subjects I've remembered seeing either AT Old Rhinebeck, or read about as having flown there at one time or another, and I came up with my own list, which comprises vists dating back to as early as 1972..."here goes"...

Cole's own Fokker Dr I repro (110 hp Le Rhône)
Dick King's Sopwith Pup repro (80 hp Le Rhône-now at Owl's Head in ME, USA)
Cole's original Sopwith Snipe (engine type not known)
Cole's restored American Aeroplane Supply House Blériot-Type-Onze (Gnome 50 hp engine)
Former NASM [Nungesser's] Nieuport-Dix two seater (110 hp Le Rhône, I think?)
Dick Day's Sopwith Camel repro (engine type not known)
Cole Palen & Nat deFlavia Sopwith Camel repro (160 hp Gnôme Monosoupape)
Gordon Bainbridge's Nieuport 11 Bébé repro (80 hp Le Rhône)
Brian Coughlin's TWO Fokker D VIII repros (160 hp Gnôme Monosoupapes-
one each with Javier Arango and Kermit Weeks)
Cole's Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.8 pusher repro (engine not known)
Leo Opdycke's Bristol Scout D repro (80 hp Le Rhône)

...and...the "best for last" (especially when my German buddy JENS, at www.biplanes.de, is asked)...

The AVRO 504K repro (110 hp Le Rhône) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, there IS a Thomas-Morse rotary powered fighter up on "the hill" in the museum...I can't remember if that ever flew at ORA, though...!

I'm QUITE well acquainted with the sounds of ALL those different rotaries, the RC model-like odor of castor oil lubricant for those engines...hopefully, with work from Carroll F Gray (especially with his appropriate action in ACQUIRING the copyright to the Old Rhinebeck name, which "certain people" allowed to lapse) and more efforts from all of us, a good many of the people I'll be meeting on Saturday at Red Hook High School, for the Cole Palen meet, will be BACK at our favorite place before too much longer...!!!

My little Olympus point-n-shoot digital camera will be getting photos there for websites like ColePalen.com, and even perhaps for Jens' site in Germany...

..hope to see some of my fellow forum-ites there on Saturday...look for me in my "biplanes.de" T-shirt...

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

[cadzag72]

Just to add to the PIPE's list:

The Caudron G III, With an 80 hp Le Rhone,
The Deperdussin with a 160 Gnome (taxied but never flown)
The newly finished Morane N (I have yet to see this one, but from the website pictures it appears to have a 160 gnome. overkill?)
Cole's ORIGINAL Nieuport 28 with a 160 Gnome
and my personal favorite, Cole's ORIGINAL Morane AI with a 160 Gnome.

i love 160 gnomes!

from what I've read, the Thomas Morse had flown for a few years until cole decided it was too valuable to fly anymore.


as for unidentifieds, I believe (not certain) that Dick Day's camel had an 80 hp Le Rhone, and that the F.E. 8 also had an 80 hp Le Rhone. The Nieuport 10 has an 80 Le Rhone, and the Snipe is foggy, but I do know when it was rebuilt by Gordon Bainbridge it was fitted with a 230 Bentley. I've heard when it flew it had a 130 Clerget in it, but from the footage I've seen of it on the ground, I'd be inclined to think it had the Bentley then, too. It rocked more than the 160 camel! I've heard it liked to jump the chocks every now and then too.

Interesting also is that cole's triplane ran with a 100 gnome until the rogue cylinder went for a field trip, and afterwards was fitted with the 110 Le Rhone.

and there have been so many that have come through the aerodrome that I'm sure there's even more that I've missed. what a fantastic place!

[Jon18]

The Snipe was originally powered with a Clerget Rotary Engine. I believe it is the same Clerget that is now on display in the museum buildings.

[Hellcat]

I finally have time to upload a few pictures from last Saturday's free flight meet at Red Hook HS. A wonderful group of friendly people attended and a marvelous time was had by all.

[Hellcat]

Here's some of those whose contributions to ORA are sorely missed.

[Hellcat]

Kudos to Tom P for organizing this event.