Rhinebeck Museum trouble

[Fokker Ace]

Larry, since you're associated with ORA and indicate they're doing extremely well, can you give any insight into why the collection in the quonset huts seems to be in a state of perpetual decay?

Last month was my first trip back to the museum since the mid 90's and it seemed to me as if nothing has happened there other than the place looking 15 years more run down.

If ORA is doing good why does it appear they've simply left all those old hulks to rot? Those buildings are in horrible condition and the repairs I saw to the roof looked like the kind of fast repair someone does after a hurricane has gone through.

F.A.

Not sure which you are talking about; the huts up the hill past the parking lot (ie. "The Museum") or the ones at the south end of the air strip... or if your term refers to the building or plane "old hulks" "rotting". I haven't been to "the Museum" in quite some while so I can not address this. I will go up there in the next week or two.
ORA is having a good $$ year this year. Last year wasn't terrific.
I guess the old expression IS true: "The more things change... the more they stay the same". I did read here or at "save Rhinebeck" that Cole had a few planes lost to a hut collapse. Yep, the "place" is kinda run down, but in defense of the current "regime": Firstly, most of them work and have families; they already give the Aerodrome MUCH of their time (i.e. most Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays, at the very least, between mid June and mid October. Much of that time is taken up by more pressing Aerodrome business. Doesn't leave a lot of time for "one's self" or cleaning rotting bones, if ya gettin' my drift. Secondly, volunteers for "that" sort of stuff are few and far between. But how about this? As a retired civil engineer/highway & bridge inspector, with heavy experience in architecture & building construction, I will personally inspect the structures you mention. If I find them in a state of potentially hazardous condition, I will notify "the Board" that action must be taken.
Please provide details.

Thanx,
LBB

[Bitz Dr1]

Originally Posted by larryboomboom

Yes, I have seen that site. It paints a very grim picture (one of which I am attempting to digest and understand objectively). It SURE has been a "hush hush" around ORA. (Seems everything there is a BIG secret.)

I was re-introduced to the collection at the ORA by someone very close to me, as well as to the Aerodrome. My father and Cole were doing a similar thing, but directions changed for our collection due to some of the same things that are happening in NY right now.

As far as the posts made here by me, I am replying in shock and awe at the blatant disregards, and am seeking clarity. Often, I walk away from the computer shaking my head and muttering WTF?

History and it's artifacts need to be in good hands, otherwise we might as well tell all of the souls that gave themselves to furthering aviation, as well as Combat Veterans to go climb under a rock and be forgotten.

If any of you here at the Rhinebeck could outline the things that will need to be done in the last weeks of October to ready the collection for Winter, I would appreciate it.

An outline of what the plans are, as well as what is being put on the back burner due to lack of hands to do the work would be helpful.

Also, has the heater been put in the Hangers, or is it still sitting in a pile in a corner of an office there?

Structurally, what is lacking on the hangers, and what sort of material budget is there for materials.

B.S. if they say there is not enough money to fix the hangers- Find it. Pull it out of your own accounts, but don't neglect the structures.

My time is very valuable, and I will give it freely to the collection if the materials are quality and there to be installed. Any extra hands willing to join in too?

Huge winds there today, so perhaps there is even more getting fubar from that.

[Fokker Ace]

Larry, I was speaking about the museum huts on the hill. It's great you will take a look at them so please let people know what find and what you think.

I'm not an engineer so when I speak of the buildings in bad shape they might very well be sound and secure - it's the seeming lack of interest in preserving the contents in any sort of archival way that's puzzling. Old planes left sitting on bare floors in dark, nasty buildings was not a sign of success or even caring what happens to that stuff.

Again, I may be completely wrong and that's how things should be, displayed but I kind of doubt it.

By the way, what happened to the non-flying replica from "The Magnificent Men And Their Flying Machines" movie?

[ONEALM]

LarryBoomBoom -

Thanks for joining in the discussion. You seem a reasonable sort based on the posts so far, but if you want to get to the crux of the matter, avoid some of the useless chatter on this thread and get to the meat of the subject, just read the peition on the SaveORA site.

If that doesn't convince you the current BoT is, by and large, a blight on ORA and will ultimately be the cause of the loss of irreplaceable parts of our national heritage and the authors of ORA's collapse, you are not paying
attention.

The petition is not heresay or opinion. Everything in the petition can be proven and has been proved. It was prepared by an attorney who would not settle for any arguments which did not have their basis in fact, and substantial evidence to back up those allegations, that would stand the test in court.

If you've any concept of what the place stands for and the intentions of the people who animated ORA over the many years it was fruitful, you'll stand on this side of the fence and stick your nose in to the business of ORA as you have access to it. You - You, and the other volunteers who claim to care about the concept and construction ORA, it's purpose and place in our national heritage - should stand up and open your eyes to this one fact:

Mismanagement at every level and in every conceivable way is no way to run ORA. It has to stop.

When everyone posts these negative comments about ORA, what do you think this is going to achieve? The Aerodrome may not be what it used to be, but saying all of this stuff and trying to close it down with petitions is just.....ridiculous! The Save Rhinebeck Aerodrome petition does make good points. The main focus is to remove the current BOD and replace it with a new BOD. How do you know they will be any different? Are all of the complainers wiling to move to Rhinebeck to run the ORA? What many of you don't realize is that a lot of the Board Members have really good intentions. Hundreds of people pass through the Aerodrome every week happy and amazed at the incredible collection. If you don't like the Aerodrome....fair enough. My main point here is that everyone bickering about various problems or incidents that have happened at the Aerodrome really don't achieve anything but a greater negative feeling. Talking about the airshow director or the museum president really doesn't do anything. Without their leadership there would be no Aerodrome for everyone to complain about!

[ONEALM]

Are all of the complainers wiling to move to Rhinebeck to run the ORA? What many of you don't realize is that a lot of the Board Members have really good intentions.

To part I, being one of the "complainers" and a petition sponsor, the answer is YES.

I would ask you though, how many of the current board live in or near ORA? How many are even in the State ?

Secondly, if the BoT is full of good intentions, I have not seen it and I would love to hear of examples of their "good intentions" that have actually helped ORA. If I am mistaken, and they actually are good intentioned - which I would be supremely suprised to discover, then they are simply incompetant and should be removed.

I would be more selective in the use of the word "Leadership". I know so-called leaders whose entire purpose in leading is self-aggrandizement. ORA has such a "Leadership" now. They have no connection or understanding of the purpose of ORA and have proved time and again whatever their vision of the future for ORA is, it's headed down the wrong track.

If you want to prop up the board, do us all a favor.... post a list of positive developments at ORA over the last 5 or 6 years. Tell us how they've managed to strengthen ORA's financial position. Tell me how they have preserved or expanded the collection of airplanes or memorabilia. Tell me how they have improved the Aerodrome infrastructure, grounds, hangars, museum builings or gift shop. Tell me what their marketing plan is - how do they plan to advertise, grow their Museum membership, increase airshow attendance. Tell me how they have strengthened their relationship with the local community. Tell what they have done to continue the purpose of education upon which ORA was founded.

Tell me what their metrics tell you about attendance. Tell me something, Anything. Even one g-damn thing they have done that would tell me that they give a crap about the future of the place or have any understanding whatever of it's place in the national heritage.

The "complainers", far from "not liking" ORA, think it needs to be handled like the national treasure it is. Not like someone's private sandbox. The current crew, contrary to the vast minority of opinion here and elsewhere, is not suited to run ORA.

We are not here to tear ORA down - only to eliminate the forces now in place that will ultimately run it down. If you contend it's not running down, make sure you tell me why.....opinion doesn't count. Give me metrics, specific examples.

The petitioners want nothing more than to see a competent, intelligent and rational board running the place. I do not care if it has ANY of the petitioners on it. What we want is a body that is focused on ORA's long-term existance, one that has a game plan for the next year, 5 and 10 years. One that intends to expand the collection with appropriate airframes, preserve the current collection, educate the public about the history behind the hardware, support the local community, and a hundred other postive steps that are required to keep an organization like this active and vital for a generation or more.

Labeling us as complainers is a sure way to raise our ire. Complainers only complain - they don't put their reputations and finances on the line. They open their mouths and then sit on their hands.

The petitioners have stood up, raised their hands and attested their faith and loyalty to the preservation of ORA. They've opened their mouths and put action behind their words - this is the essential difference between a "complainer" and us.

[Oswald]

Dear rhk09,

I am glad to see more of those people closely involved with ORA joining the conversation here. That said, tread carefully, as I suspect It would be unwise for you to upset either those currently running ORA or those here who wish to change those running ORA. Let me back up ONEALM in saying that everyone involved in the Petition have the best intentions of ORA in mind. That said, when you deal with a topic and place so dear to peoples hearts, and such a part of their childhood and past, tempers can flare and people can make mistakes and act in a way that does not help the situation. I suspect many of the petitioners and those involved with it feel frustrated, as they must sit and wait, unable to act as a government agency takes all the time it possibly can to decide what, if anything will be done. This magnifies in their minds every mistake and every accident which occurs while the current BOT is in power. It is important to remember that these people are for the most part the ORA of the past. They are the wing-runners, the pilots, mechanics, the ground-crew, the "Child Actors", the dedicated workers and volunteers who had the privilege of working with Cole himself. In a perfect world anyone who wanted to work with ORA could, but for whatever reason that appears impossible. Hopefully you have a slightly better take on the mood in this corner of the Internet, given by someone who tries very hard to ride the yellow line and see both sides for what they are.

Good Luck and don't be a stranger here,
Oswald

[airknocker]

Sadly, we only have to look back on the mistreatment of Richard King and Chris Rogine to judge the caliber of the ORA BOT.

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Originally Posted by Oswald

Dear rhk09,

I am glad to see more of those people closely involved with ORA joining the conversation here. That said, tread carefully, as I suspect It would be unwise for you to upset either those currently running ORA or those here who wish to change those running ORA. Let me back up ONEALM in saying that everyone involved in the Petition have the best intentions of ORA in mind. That said, when you deal with a topic and place so dear to peoples hearts, and such a part of their childhood and past, tempers can flare and people can make mistakes and act in a way that does not help the situation. I suspect many of the petitioners and those involved with it feel frustrated, as they must sit and wait, unable to act as a government agency takes all the time it possibly can to decide what, if anything will be done. This magnifies in their minds every mistake and every accident which occurs while the current BOT is in power. It is important to remember that these people are for the most part the ORA of the past. They are the wing-runners, the pilots, mechanics, the ground-crew, the "Child Actors", the dedicated workers and volunteers who had the privilege of working with Cole himself. In a perfect world anyone who wanted to work with ORA could, but for whatever reason that appears impossible. Hopefully you have a slightly better take on the mood in this corner of the Internet, given by someone who tries very hard to ride the yellow line and see both sides for what they are.

Good Luck and don't be a stranger here,
Oswald

very well-explained. thank you, oswald!
~m. esch, one of the petitioners