Rhinebeck Museum trouble

ONEALM · 23 October 2009, 06:31 AM

Bitz -

Quote:

What is displayed is clear to being part of the inventory, and the
former web site showed a ton of wheeled machines

Since there are a few privately owned aircraft, not everything we see at ORA belongs to the museum or airshows directly.

The stuff on the hill in the museum buildings does, but the inventory should include not only the largest/obvious item - like "full scale SSW. DIII" - but also the engine and instrument package in them. It would be a simple matter to scavange from these - for legitimate (restorations, replacements for functional aircraft) or illegitimate purposes.

Pretty sure we are on the same page here - just wanted to be clear for the benefit of the lurkers...

tazbat · 23 October 2009, 11:22 PM

dingdongsuchgarbage I think your first comment was misunderstood. Most of us regular posters here are likewise sick and tired of the garbage that is taking a toll on the Aerodrome. Many have tried and are still trying to get state agencies, the media, etc., etc., to wake up and take note of the malfeasance. But like a bunch of ostriches they seem to have their heads stuck in the sand or in some other place where the sun doesn't shine.

You live only seven minutes away, maybe... so my guess is you could have something to say that would be constructive and informative. Were you ever a volunteer or employee at ORA?

Salute!

24 October 2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazbat

dingdongsuchgarbage I think your first comment was misunderstood. Most of us regular posters here are likewise sick and tired of the garbage that is taking a toll on the Aerodrome. Many have tried and are still trying to get state agencies, the media, etc., etc., to wake up and take note of the malfeasance. But like a bunch of ostriches they seem to have their heads stuck in the sand or in some other place where the sun doesn't shine.

You live only seven minutes away, maybe... so my guess is you could have something to say that would be constructive and informative. Were you ever a volunteer or employee at ORA?

Salute!

I have alot of pull in the community... Darned right I'm very close... My affiliation.. might just surprise you.. but i certainly do not feel anyone has a right to attack another without asking.. Certainly a welcome to the forum and saying hi and asking me why I'm here.. would have been nicer....

Bitz Dr1 · 24 October 2009, 09:18 AM

Recall when the NS crashed this Summer, and articles were pulled from the newspapers. Then, recall the recently filed FAA crash report that did not stretch the facts like the first one? There is credit due to a select few locals, so even if she comes off as slight and feminine, dingdongsuchgarbage is a figure in society that can make things happen, and is pretty fierce when prodded.

This is a professional forum, and is used by professionals. If we all respect that, then good can come out of it. Please though, let's all treat eachother with the respect that we hope to receive. All of us, even if we do not agree.

We are here for progress, and community support of something dear to our hearts-
The preservation of history comes before the preservation of pride, for without one, we lack the foundation for forming the latter.

Now, back to Winter preparations. Are there any Rhinebeck folks that can put a list of things together that NEED to be done? This is a genuine question, as the world is reading this, and some of us have skills and time to offer.

24 October 2009, 10:55 AM

Hi dingdongsuchgarbage,

On behalf of myself and my father (tazbat - who in his own way was welcoming you) we welcome you.

I found no fault in your original posting, either. I am not sure what's up with the "troll" comment.

If you have pull in the community, then that could be a plus for ORA, since the BoT's seem to have more than their fair share. That has been a constant obstacle for the ones who wish to see ORA returned to a method of management that Cole and Rita expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitz Dr1

...Are there any Rhinebeck folks that can put a list of things together that NEED to be done?...

It's a noble request, but many of us who do and don't post here are not inclined to support the BoT's that we don't agree with and wish to see removed. Once they are gone, you won't believe the number of people who will come together to get ORA back on its feet again. We've been waiting for six long years.

Fokker Ace · 24 October 2009, 03:22 PM

Thinking out loud here...maybe the the choice of "dingdongsuchgarbage" for a screen name raised the eyebrows on those who commented.

Geoff King · 24 October 2009, 05:14 PM

I believe there was a mechanical failure with the LeRhone in the Avro immediately after take-off. I'm sure Mr. Gorden did all that he could to try and get the engine running smoothly, not knowing that he would be unable to do so. Without having the altitude to troubleshoot effectively there is just nowhere to put an aircraft down unless you are right over the runway. And the Avro, along with many other aircraft from that time period, does not glide very far!
My father had to put the Dolphin in the woods in very nearly the same place and was fortunate to walk away. Kudos to Mr. Gorden for being able to do the same, under the circumstances.
Geoff

Bitz Dr1 · 24 October 2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by air male

It's a noble request, but many of us who do and don't post here are not inclined to support the BoT's that we don't agree with and wish to see removed. Once they are gone, you won't believe the number of people who will come together to get ORA back on its feet again. We've been waiting for six long years.

A noble request? Well, while we all have been waiting, that place's condition is going downhill. Planes are falling out of the sky, and things are vanishing, corroding, or falling into various states of decay. Wait too long, and you will have a pile of junk to tend to, nothing more.

To be frank with you, the BOT and the condition of the aircraft and housing for the vehicle collection are two totally separate problems that are to be addressed in different ways. I am offering support to the machines, not the men. NY Winters are harsh, and those craft are not that happy with their homes perhaps.

One challenge at the ORA is hard to rectify on short notice, yet the other- also a very real problem, can actually be dealt with on short term. I am with you though in principle, and totally see your perspective. If it were not for the love of the machines, I would adhere to a very similar principle, but the men and the machines are very different things entirely, and the machines are not getting any younger, and seems like they could use some love too-

Major Larabee · 25 October 2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff King

I believe there was a mechanical failure with the LeRhone in the Avro immediately after take-off. I'm sure Mr. Gorden did all that he could to try and get the engine running smoothly, not knowing that he would be unable to do so. Without having the altitude to troubleshoot effectively there is just nowhere to put an aircraft down unless you are right over the runway. And the Avro, along with many other aircraft from that time period, does not glide very far!
My father had to put the Dolphin in the woods in very nearly the same place and was fortunate to walk away. Kudos to Mr. Gorden for being able to do the same, under the circumstances.
Geoff

It certainly sounds like it had a problem at take off, it still had a problem when it came back over the strip!! As you say these type of A/C do not glide far so why if he knew he had a problem did he turn away from the strip so when it final quit he was to far away??? He had an oppertunity to put it back down after the first circuit, i dont know the guy so dont know his abilities but i do question his decision making??? He had two oppertunities that i saw to put it back down on the strip, just after take off and after the first circuit, but ellected to keep flying and put her in the tree's

tazbat · 25 October 2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitz Dr1

...To be frank with you, the BOT and the condition of the aircraft and housing for the vehicle collection are two totally separate problems that are to be addressed in different ways. I am offering support to the machines, not the men.

Two years ago I was visiting the Aerodrome, wandering through one of the Quonset buildings when two individuals who worked there came up to me and proceeded to verbally tell me how unwelcomed I was. One of the individuals used very typical body language to reinforce his verbal intimidations. Their suggestion that I leave didn't deter me from continuing to go about my visit and to buy a ticket and watch the air show.

So, for me there is not likely to be an open arms welcome to come and work on anything.

It doesn't look like there are any improvements in the way the BoT's are handling things. Consider how the new website is only a remnant of the first one. It has an eye catching front page, but is only a skeleton in comparison. There are no photos of the collection pieces with accompanying stats and descriptions. Will this attract people to come? Not if they don't know there is a whole collection to be seen. The old website was sort of like a publicly available inventory, at least a partial one. Now, if something is sold or traded it will be even more difficult to prove since that part of the website no longer exists. There has never been an all encompassing inventory audit since 2003, when the current BoT's took over. Are there parallel agendas in no collection photos online and no current inventory list?

What I currently see when I look at the new website is hawking for an air show, nothing more. A bunch of eye candy in the presentation is as worthless as an empty candy wrapper, since there is not much to see.

If the intention is to incorporate the collection photos into the new website, why didn't they just wait to publish it that way, instead of having a bare bones offering? The old site certainly wasn't discouraging people from visiting.

Salute!