Rhinebeck Museum trouble

[tazbat]

Originally Posted by womenfly2

...If all this effort in this thread was directed in helping ORA be better, then it would be in a short amount of time. Maybe contact them, talk to them, write to them, go an request to sit in on a BOD or BOT meeting. Its your right to under the 501c3 charter.

Cheers.

If a body has cancer and is to survive, the cancer has to first be removed. You can't say, "I will live with the cancer for a better life." There is no better life with cancer.

Thus it is the same with the core members of the BoTs. They are the cancer which has brought ORA to the dismal condition it has fallen into. Once they are removed, then ORA can be free to regain its former health.

As for removing the current BoTs, a dozen people have been working on that since 2003. Only a handful of people have been committed to stepping up to the proverbial plate. Those few put their names on the petition and their money on the table. Many others have wanted things to change, but that is all; just wanted. The NY regulations governing not for profit musuems leaves practically no options for watchdog individuals and organizations to have any affect in protecting museums from opportunists who will have their way. ORA is a perfect example. Besides put offs, lies, and deceitful responses from State agents involved in so called investigations of situations at ORA, politics has likewise reared its ugly head and quashed the voices of those concerned.

The one diamond in all the rough surrounding ORA is the attention those few petition signers have managed to keep focused at the individuals behind the conditions in Rhinebeck. Admittedly, the BoTs are many times their own worst enemy in bringing attention to bear; a result of their ineptness and desire to use ORA to their own advantage.

This forum has been many things in the cause. It has been a place to vent one's dissatisfaction, a medium to bring attention, a forum for encouragement. But, it isn't enough without a large and powerful voice that can shake the halls of regulations, or go toe to toe with political posturing. As I said before, the few names on the petition speaks volumes to the ones who have the ability to effect change in all this. What it says is... there is nearly no one out there who believes there is a real problem at ORA. Out of all the people who have ever worked at ORA, visited it (especially before 2003), or have known Cole and Rita or any of the hundreds who worked with them, only nine funded and signed the petition submitted to the NY Board of Regents, of which a state worker never submitted on their behalf, but left it buried on his desk for the last two years.

One point that imperatively needs mention is, there are sincere and honested hearted individuals at ORA who endeavor to keep alive what Cole and his partners created. In their unique situation they have not desired to be in the spotlight as though they have some god-like gift or knowledge that deserves attention. Cole was not that way and neither are they. I could not knowingly work for a cutthroat group of trustees and be able to faithfully carry out my duties, but these few, mostly volunteers, can and do. It is their commitment that has unselfishly kept ORA alive through the many poor decisions. I mention no names and I am convinced they wouldn't want theirs to be told.

Don't take this as an insult or intimidation, it is not offered as such. Womenfly2 if you take your own advice, maybe you'll have a clearer understanding of how complicated the conditions are at ORA. Maybe you have volunteered there since 2003 and are familiar with the trustees and their ways. Not everyone disagrees with the way they have run things. Unless you have witnessed the behind the scenes ways of Cole Palen you probably won't see what's so different about what has been occurring since 2003.

After six years since the ousting of the Old Guard and associate volunteers, I am convinced there are too few committed people to bring about changes at ORA; to bring it back to a standard that would honor its founder and the many who sacrificed so much of their own lives to help him.
Is is a sad thing to finally admit.

What Cole created was a magical "Circus." The trustees have reduced it to a simple carnival.

Salute!

[womenfly2]

Okay, so what have you done to move all this forward? I mean really viable actions that has made a visible change to ORA?

Just curious.

Also, did not ORA hold a memorial service for Vincent and that a scholarship fund was sent up in his memory? Maybe the family does not want one, ever think of that?

[Bitz Dr1]

Originally Posted by womenfly2

Okay, so what have you done to move all this forward? I mean really viable actions that has made a visible change to ORA?

Just curious.

Also, did not ORA hold a memorial service for Vincent and that a scholarship fund was sent up in his memory? Maybe the family does not want one, ever think of that?

It is customary for an airfiled to dedicate a memorial to fallen flyers. In the case of the Blue Max collection at Baldonnell field, there is a stained glass window in the church, and nice plaque.


Instead of finger wagging at us m'aam, take a moment and implement your ideas, that way- the finger wagging carries some weight. Then, come here and share that with us.

Everyone that is a regular poster here has done tangible things to help move things at the ORA in a positive direction. Countless hours of research, and legal studies have been done. Petitions and filings with the State of NY.


THIS VERY FORUM AND THREAD GOT PROPER FAA CRASH REPORTS FILED.

Inventory is being properly categorized, Newspapers have been contacted.

I personally have discussed this problem at the ORA with many Hollywood figures (many are owners of substantial collections themselves), two US Senators, one local NY Mayor, seven NY newspapers, half a dozen nasty attorneys with very sharp teeth, and some folks that are spies right under everyone's nose.
Yep, there are moles living right amongst the folks that are the focus of our criticism. Gathering loads of evidence.

I have spent close to $2,000 on airfare to travel to that area to see things with my own eyes on more than one occasion this year alone.

So- pardon me for calling you on this- but where does your condescension come from?

[Bitz Dr1]

Originally Posted by womenfly2

No disrespect for Vincent the pilot of the 24. Wow, but you guy's sure do just sit around and think things up to keep the pot boiling.
What a web we weave.

If all this effort in this thread was directed in helping ORA be better, then it would be in a short amount of time. Maybe contact them, talk to them, write to them, go an request to sit in on a BOD or BOT meeting. Its your right to under the 501c3 charter.

Cheers.

In case you have not yet noticed, things have progressed much farther past these stages.

ORA Board members do not even return the calls of folks that own WWI aircraft that are looking to house them on their grounds. I waited months to hear back from them before deciding to take up swords. What makes you think they give a hoot about what ANYONE thinks.

Omnipotence. Look that one up. Synonymous with ORA BOT.
Remove two letters from that word and that is what your suggestions lead with.

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Originally Posted by Bitz Dr1

...

THIS VERY FORUM AND THREAD GOT PROPER FAA CRASH REPORTS FILED.
...

and don't forget, the whisleblowers on this thread also caused the return of the gnome rotary engine.

[Bitz Dr1]

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

and don't forget, the whisleblowers on this thread also caused the return of the gnome rotary engine.

Hats off to that!!! The whole thing is totally perverted, and of course will bring out frustration.

Aviation is a topic that inspires, and births passion.
History is tenfold more.

As for me, I derive some great satisfaction that I am invisible in the crowd, and not recognized by anyone. I could be sitting right next to you, and you would never even know it. The ORA has had me as a guest without even knowing who I am. Hope that makes you uneasy ORA BOT.

Best behave yourselves now, you hear?

Originally Posted by Bitz Dr1

...
Everyone that is a regular poster here has done tangible things to help move things at the ORA in a positive direction. Countless hours of research, and legal studies have been done. Petitions and filings with the State of NY...


... I personally have discussed this problem at the ORA with many Hollywood figures (many are owners of substantial collections themselves), two US Senators, one local NY Mayor, seven NY newspapers, half a dozen nasty attorneys with very sharp teeth, and some folks that are spies right under everyone's nose...

The State of NY has been stonewalling for a long time now. Despite whatever advantages it has provided the Museum Charters Office in the past, it is time for this battle to continue on. BitzDR1, may your affiliation with the entertainment industry be of good advantage for restoring true direction and prosperity to Rhinebeck Aerodrome Museum and the Air Show. The petitioners have broken the ground and planted seed. Now is the time for watering and growing. Your efforts and resources are appreciated.

The one thing I feel the petition has not been able to accomplish, and to no fault of anyone involved, is to bring public exposure to the BOTs in a large way. As you noted, politicians who value the protection of historical venues, well meaning folks willing to donate disposable resources, and powerful (it helps if they are sympathetic to the cause) lawyers can be an asset in this direction. The petition is a powerful instrument documenting, up until its submittal, all the nasty details of the BoT's poor decisions and lack of devotion to the proper preservation of their charge, RAM. Despite being posted on the web it alone has not generated sufficient support, of the right people with the right resources, to affect positive change.

I don't think that all the BoT members are so-called bad guys. There are two that I know of by name and reputation who I believe are of good character and have plenty of aviation experience and history with Cole. Unfortunately, guilt by association can become tedious and it was such association that the core trustees depended on to cause the mass evacuation of good people prior to 2003. Any who didn't resign and stood to oppose them were voted out or fired. The point is, there are some good people there, in different areas of expertise who can or will be good assets once the boards have been opened to fair voting. Hopefully some board members will be punished for their malfeasance. Those who are worthless would soon move on once they discover that ORA doesn't hang on their every word and deed, or doesn't rotate around them. These particular ones make a big deal about praising Cole through one side of their mouths while broadcasting their skills and accomplishments out the other.

I look forward to the day when visiting RAM and the Air Shows will be like old times when it stood still in the early days of aviation. I remember many times how I crossed the foot bridge early in the morning when a ground fog lightly blanketed the air field, and staff people started rolling out the aircraft to populate the flight line. Music of the twenties floated on the air. Few things have been so nostalgic for me.

[tazbat]

Originally Posted by womenfly2

... If all this effort in this thread was directed in helping ORA be better, then it would be in a short amount of time. Maybe contact them, talk to them, write to them, go an request to sit in on a BOD or BOT meeting. Its your right to under the 501c3 charter.

Cheers.

Many different people have tried every way possible (according to what is typical in the museum world) to contact the people at ORA, to offer support, to ask questions and in every case that I know of, no responses were ever returned; mine included.

I remember one gentleman living in Massachusetts, who used to visit several times a season and who donated generously. After retiring to Florida he continued to donate money... until a donation went unacknowledged in the fall of 2003. He tried many times and by various means to determine if his donation had been received, not lost by the Post Office or confiscated by a dishonest individual. Finally, he gave up trying and never donated again.

The BoT's have no desire to hear what others have to offer, unless you want to volunteer and keep your mouth shut, while looking the other way. They know what they want and so it doesn't matter what others think. They know that what they want is not in the best interest of the Museum or its collection. It's their interests only that count. That is why the boards have been locked since 2003, and members are added only by appointment of the core trustees. It's no different from a private club. If a private club has no interest in a person, they won't give them the time of day, much less repsond to any other matters.

I appreciate that your comment was well intended, but it reveals that you probably haven't read many of the early postings in this thread. It's a lot to read, but it paints a very complete picture of the trustees mentality and methods.

Honestly, there is no dealing with them on a fair playing field, namely through usual channels. Many have been there and done that.

Salute!

[wingnut]

I have been posting on this thread since about 2002. Its hard to believe this is still going on. Hey ACC, I have at least 1-200 posts, can you get the right number, please. Thanks to Bitz DR1 and Tazbat for those recent posts. You guys are right on target with your responses. Anyway, I was driving up the NYS 87 to see some old friends and I stopped at Sloatsburg rest stop. There was a large rack of long postcard things advertising the local attractions. Sure enough, ORA. Now this year was the 50th anniversary. I could not believe my eyes. This amateur ad was real bad. On the top was cole name in the smallest letters I have seen for that logo.The silhouette of the triplane was there but now instead of Dick Kings Pup, was a Sopwith Camel. The Pup and the Triplane was the logo since the early 60s. But the center of this card is a paint by number sort of cartoon looking apeboy from the movie,Planet Of The Apes. He has goggles, cap and is about to toss a biplane glider. Above him is a bad painting of the triplane and the Nep 26 trailing behind. The boy also has no teeth. Apes have teeth. The colors are so brilliant it hurt my eyes. If I never heard of ORA, I might think looking at this card that ORA was an airplane model store or museum,or something. On the back, I would get the message, but no photos except for a picture of the Standard that looks like it is flying in a sand storm.Oh well, that was that.

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Originally Posted by wingnut

I have been posting on this thread since about 2002. Its hard to believe this is still going on. Hey ACC, I have at least 1-200 posts, can you get the right number, please.

wingnut,
the rhinebeck threads' posts don't get tabulated. only posts in the WW1 sections of the forum get added, sorry.