Cole Palen's Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome

Doc · 19 August 2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazbat

This plane, the JN4 series, was the only American plane to go to Europe during WW1. The DH-4, although designed and built in the U.S., was still a British DeHaviland, made under contract.

So many JN4's were made, that after ww1 you could buy a new one for as little as $200. The Aerodrome's Jenny, is a JN-4H, the "H" meaning it is powered by a Hisspano-Suiza engine or "Hisso," for short. To my knowledge, the JN-4H models never made it to Europe before the war ended.

The prior models of JN4's were powered by Curtiss built OX-5 engines, producing 90 hp. The Hisso produced 150 hp. Although, Hispano-Suiza produced many variants of this engine, the ones typically used in the Curtiss Jenny being built under contract by Curtiss. Occasionally, you see them referred to as a Curtiss-Hispano.

During WW1 these were mostly used as trainers. Afterwards, Hollywood and the Barnstormer's used them in every conceivable way to delight their audiences. It was certainly a sturdy aircraft, especially since this one has survived 82 years. Thanks to people like Cole Palen, Gordon Bainbridge, Dick King, Scott McKenzie, Ken Cassen, and many others along with skilled volunteers, planes like these have survived well beyond their normal years.

Salute!

Good morning. Do you have any references or documentation on the JN-4 series actually being taken to Europe during WWI? Thanks. Doc

EricGoedkoop · 20 August 2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazbat

Did Cole have more than one DVII?

The D.VII in Steve's photo was Cole's first - actually a two-seat C.I that was converted to a D.VII. I believe it was damaged beyond repair one winter when a snow-laden hangar roof collapsed on it. There's some great footage of Dave Fox putting her through her paces on one of the old videos sold in the gift shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

Do you have any references or documentation on the JN-4 series actually being taken to Europe during WWI?

Doc -

I believe a small number of JN-4s went to England to be evaluated or possibly used as trainers. I'll have to dig up the info - I want to say that they may have been Canucks but I'm not positive. In any event, I don't believe they saw very much service.

20 August 2005, 12:48 PM

In Gordon Bainbridge's book on ORA, there is a picture of the collapsed roof on the D-7. However, it WAS repaired and was able to take to the skies again! Read the book, it's all in there!

Happy Landings,

PIET

20 August 2005, 12:56 PM

The Fokker Hangar in that black and white photo was right near the entrance to the present day shop, and it is no longer there. It was torn down a few years back, and yes, that is the hangar that collapsed on the 1st D-7 that flew the skies over Rhinebeck!

Happy Landings,

PIET

SteveS · 20 August 2005, 07:03 PM

Tazbat wrote:

Quote:

Steve, those are great pics of days gone by. Even the Buick stationwagon is vintage. Mind if I ask what you paid for them? The Aerodrome sure looked different then. The runway was much coarse looking. Is the Fokker hangar the same one we see today? Did Cole have more than one DVII?

Thanks, they set me back around $8.50 for the four.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricGoedkoop

The D.VII in Steve's photo was Cole's first - actually a two-seat C.I that was converted to a D.VII. I believe it was damaged beyond repair one winter when a snow-laden hangar roof collapsed on it. There's some great footage of Dave Fox putting her through her paces on one of the old videos sold in the gift shop.

I remember hearing that story about the D.VII being a converted two seater. I was told that story started when a wrongly captioned photo of Cole's D.VII was published in "Fokker D.VII in Action", by Squadron. Only one of the errors in the book, I was informed, including the cover!

The story I know is the wings and tail feathers were from a C.II and were found hanging from the ceiling in a store in the northeast. He built the fuselage himself after copying one that was in a Canadian museum.
The fuselage was cut in half by the hanger. The plane was rebuilt.

Salute,
Steve

BobPhil · 25 August 2005, 04:40 PM

Fellows,

This past weekend I attended the Sunday show with my daughter and grandson, for the first time in my visiting history, with my pre-teen kids till now, one of the pilots and a few of the groun personel actually let my 5yr old grandson sit in the Triplane and Albatros cickpit..they offered to do so! Iwas very grateful and very surprised!

Bob ...........

curtisswright · 26 August 2005, 11:26 AM

I'm surprised they did not ask them if they wanted to take it up for a spin.

3 September 2005, 10:42 AM

Even though I was involved with ORA for a number of seasons in the airshows, I have always wondered about the D-Va's tail troubles. I know that it was hit by the Avro groundlooping into it many years ago. Why was the rudder rebuilt/replaced with the wrong shape? And also, why were tailbrace wires added to the horizontal stabilizer? I asked several of the crew down there, including GDM - and yet, none of them ever gave me a clear answer! The last couple of years that I was down there the Albatri did return to show flying, yet I still never got any answers to those two questions, so I finally just stopped asking. In all honesty, it seemed like it was some big secret taboo for anyone to speak of it, that's the impression I felt. I also remember seeing, on every t-off & ldg, that whole tail section ( hor. stab. & vert. fin/rudder ) noticably vibrate back and forth! So, if anyone has the answers to these 2 questions, I'd like to know, I've been wondering why for a very long time! With the tail not quite original like, it does change the overall appearance of the machine. I have seen many photos of the Albatri before the Avro hit it. It had the correct shaped rudder and NO brace wires - fully cantilevered as the originals were built. My own theory is that something inside that tail area was not quite right after the accident - hence - adding some external bracing (insurance) to hold it all together. As for the mis-shapen rudder, I haven't the slightest idea why!

Happy Landings,

PIET

EricGoedkoop · 3 September 2005, 10:59 AM

Piet -

I believe that back when the D.Va had the correct size/shape rudder, it tended to be blanked out by the stab during landing and made handling a little tricky. During the re-build after the accident, the fin and rudder were enlarged to solve this problem.

There were a few posts about it a long time ago in one of these threads.

Eric

Aerodrome Kid · 3 September 2005, 06:55 PM

Eric is correct. The tail did have a tendency to blank out at high AOA. ORA is a tight little strip, nothing like the large fields prevalent during the early years. When dad was rebuilding the tail after the scrape, he enlarged it something like ten percent or so to compensate and give a little more control in the landing. Any changes in design on any aircraft at ORA were generally made in the name of safety, and to ensure the long time use of what were considered working aircraft, not just musuem pieces.