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20 March 2004, 02:50 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 336
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QUOTE (Gregvan @ Feb 27 2004, 05:31 AM)
By the way, I believe that the straight-sided Balkenkreuz seen on the balloon is a small error too. I've never seen anything but Iron Crosses on German balloons, no matter the date. Even though the airplanes changed their cross styles in April 1918, I don't think this change was effected on balloons - can anyone prove me wrong with a photo ?? Greg VanWyngarden Greetings All! Mr VanWyngarden raised an interesting point here. Can anyone (Dan San?)tell me if the German Balloon Corp. switched to the BalkenKreuz as did the rest of the Air Service? I really would like to know as I am constructing a balloon diorama and would like to portray the accurate markings (September 1918). Thanks in advance. Regards, Bob D.
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"Elijah was reputed to be the patron saint of aviators, but as he went to Heaven in a chariot of fire, this was something we weren't too keen about. " Kiffen Rockwell |
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20 March 2004, 12:46 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
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Bob D:
Oddly enough, I had not considered the cross form on balloons until I Read this thread. The Fliegertruppe was composed of two major Inspectorates, 1. Inspektion der Luftschiffertruppen, (Ilust) Inspectorate of Airship Troops. 2. Inspektion der FliegerTruppen, (Idflieg), Inspectorate of Aviation Troops. When the Luftstreitkräfte was established on 8 October 1916 these two inspectorates were incorporated in the the new German Air Force. The orders or directives issued by Iflieg do not necessary apply to Ilust and visa-versas. The reasons for changing the cross-form on aircraft did not apply to the German Airship Service. The Ilust had under his command were the German Army Airships, Zeppelin and Schütte-Lanz rigid airships and the Feldluftschiffer Abteilungen Field- Balloon Sections, with the Fesselballon, (Captive Balloon). The organization paralleled Idflieg organization. The bottom line is, Ilust never issued a change order to the Balloon Sections. The German Army rigid airship organization was disbanded in June 1917. The Kreigmarine had their own organization, separate of Idflieg, however, when Idflieg issued the directive on the change of the Cross-Form, the Kreigmarine issued a directive to their aviation and airship units, and they carried the balken cross and the latin cross on their aircraft and airships. Blue skies, Dan-San |
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22 March 2004, 06:08 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 492
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Hello!
I have a "real" photo postcard from a German captif balloon at sea before the "Möle" of Zeebrugge Harbour in West-Flanders. I guessed shot from 1917 on or later seen this type of balloon showed up from about 1917. First impression I had, that it was a "Maltese cross"? Howevre those captif balloon larkings are quite different! Don't know where another postcard is at this moment from same type of German balloon, but was as far I remember a "Maltese Cross" on this one! If it comes again into my hands I let you know! Into my books howeve I have several different types on "Maltese Crosses" on "Observation balloons"! 1) Parseval-Sigsfeld type with only "black balkenkreuz"! Than on the later threetailfin type) 1)With bl One is "black cross" inside white surroundings, another is the maltese cross painted on balloon in white lines only! |
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22 March 2004, 06:32 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 492
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Hello!
I have a "real" photo postcard from a German captif balloon at sea before the "Möle" of Zeebrugge Harbour in West-Flanders. I guessed shot from 1917 on or later seen this type of balloon (AE type)showed up from about 1917. First impression I had, that it was a "Maltese cross"? But I am not fully 100 % sure of it! However those captif balloon markings are quite different! Don't know where another postcard is at this moment from same type of German balloon, but was as far I remember a "Maltese Cross" on this one! If it comes again into my hands I let you know! Into my books however I noticed several different types on "Maltese Crosses" on "Observation balloons"! 1) Parseval-Sigsfeld type with only "(black) balkenkreuz"! (Abt. n°12 15-16 Eastern-Front) Than on the later three tail fin type (Ae-type) 1)With "black Maltese cross" only. (near Swilowka) (I write Black, but was it black or red? I have only b/w photo's here!  2)With same, but + thin white lining around!(Eastern-Front) 3)Same, but cross to centerpoint is smaller! 4) Same as 3) but surrounding white lining is much wider! Remark : Centerpoint of 3) & 4) are alike a little circle! I noticed at hand of my photo added here : on top of balloon a "kreuz"was painted on the side, other hpotos show me the sideview and a "Kreuz" was painted at underside too! On one poto the side "Malteser cross" is fully dark (black?) while the one at underside is one with just white line surrounding!(Place Berlin-Tegel) So I guess a lot of different types of "crosses" where used during WW I on thse observation balloons! Makes it not easy to you! VBR Jempie |
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24 March 2004, 03:25 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 336
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Many thanks to Jempie & Dan San for the info. I guess that until we see photographic evidence to the contrary, the maltese is in, balkenkreuze out. Also thanks to Greg for making the original observation (and forcing me to refinish my balloon dio markings!
 ) Dan San, I tried to email you a couple of times with no success. Is your profile email current? Just wanted to say, your knowledge and expertise is only exceeded by your generosity. Thanks again. Regards to all, Bob D.
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"Elijah was reputed to be the patron saint of aviators, but as he went to Heaven in a chariot of fire, this was something we weren't too keen about. " Kiffen Rockwell |
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