the British uniform

[StephenLawson]

Greetings all;

For the knowledgeable amongst us I pose the the query. When did officers quit the maternity tunic and the unbleached linen breeches in favor of the over all field drab with the turned down lapels?

[Vin]

I April 1918 at a guess. Personnel from other units continued to wear the uniforms of their former units with flying insignia attached. Only those recruited direct to the RFC wore the Maternity Jacket. The riding breeches were not restricted to the RFC. Pictures show a mixture of uniform jackets and maternity jackets. I have never seen a higher ranking officer in a maternity jacket. Could these have been restricted to the sabultern class officer and then at his discretion ? A far more definitive answer may well be available in Andrew Cormack’s book, available at around $US14.00
from
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S0013

Good question.

Hi Stephen,

The turned down collar became “issue” with the “Army Officers 1915 Pattern Service Dress Jacket” modified in 1917 to the “Army Officers 1917 Pattern Service Dress Jacket”. Bare in mind that the personnel who made up the RFC where permitted to keep the uniform from the regiments/branch of service from which they originated therefore some officers would “import” this pattern into the RFC and others from the RFC would adopt the new (more comfortable and practical) uniform as worn by there "former" regiments.

The cut is very similar between the 1915 and the 1917 the main visual difference being in 1917 cuff decorations where dropped. Many officers continued to wear the “maternity pattern” for some time after the introduction of the 1915 pattern jacket. The "maternity patter" was not official phased out until 1918 when the RAF was formed and adopted their own version of the 1917 pattern dress-but that’s another question…

Osprey “Men at Arms” 341 and 351 are good sources for further information. Shame they didn’t do one on German uniforms.

Tom

[StephenLawson]

My sincerest thanks to Vin and Sime. I am doing some figures for Copper State Models. While I have Alex Revell's monographs on the British units I was looking for the time frames that the both of you provided. Thanks.

Also Tom Sime, Osprey did do a Men at Arms series book #80. The German Army 1914-18 by Fosten & Marrion with colour plates by G.A. Embleton Copyrihted in 1978, 81, 82 & 84. 0 85045 283 X. Hope that helps you

[Vin]

Originally posted by Tom Sime@Aug 2 2004, 05:21 PM
[b] Bare in mind that the personnel who made up the RFC where permitted to keep the uniform from the regiments/branch of service from which they originated therefore some officers would “import” this pattern into the RFC and others from the RFC would adopt the new (more comfortable and practical) uniform as worn by there "former" regiments.

Many officers continued to wear the “maternity pattern” for some time after the introduction of the 1915 pattern jacket. The "maternity patter" was not official phased out until 1918 when the RAF was formed and adopted their own version of the 1917 pattern dress-but that’s another question…

The habit of wearing the uniform of former units lasted beyond 1 April 1918, especially among the ex-RNAS personnel. Was permission to wear the uniform of a former unit available to ex RFC members ? Could, for example, a young man who joined ther RFC direct and then transferred to another unit wear the maternity jacket with his new unit ?

[PeterL]

Originally posted by Vin@Aug 3 2004, 12:33 PM
[b]
Could(, for example, )a young man who joined ther RFC direct and then transferred to another unit wear the maternity jacket with his new unit ?

I can't help feeling the Regimental structure of the British Army has more to do with this than any sense of regimental pride, although doubtless there was a lot of that about. An officer of another regiments serving with the RFC was seconded and, therefor, took with him his existing commission and wore the uniform of the regiment into which he was commissioned. An RFC officer seconded to, for example, the Royal Green Jackets, would enjoy the same privilege. If he were to transfer he would need to be commissioned into his new regiment; not the same thing at all.

It was my pleasure to be of help.

Intrigued by you “some figures for Copper State Models” –can you tell us more? Scale(s)? How many poses? Just pilots or ground crew also?

In addition to aircraft I also figure model and sculpt and have plans to sculpt both British and German ground crew in 1/72nd. Therefore I ask mainly in the hope that you (and Copper State of course&#33 can save me the effort of sculpting my own figures.

I posted this a short time ago under my enquiry for information on aircraft hangers; “Tonight I completed work on a master pattern to convert the RPM model T Ford (1/72nd) into a pickup truck, with a fully encased wooden cab and a drop-leaf tailgate. I’ll cast up a couple of these in resin for the diorama and a few extra for future projects that I have in mind. As this was so much fun I’d like to additional Model “T” variants for airfields as I’m sure there must have been any number of air force specific variants that I could do.” Therefore maybe I’m a “car guy” also? (c:#*

“Shame they didn’t do one on German uniforms” should have read “Shame they didn’t do one on German Air force uniforms”. Re Men at Arms #80 I have a copy of this nice little book. Gerry Embleton while good is not really at his best here; I’m sure this is debatable but Medieval and Ancients are where he truly excels.

Tom

[Vin]

When did other corps in the British army finally give up on the bleached jodhpur-like trousers, though. ?

[Boom]

PeterL,

is that a picture of the most graceful airplane built; the DeHaviland Rapide?

cheers, Boom

(At the risk of adding to a topic which has already been concluded)

Originally posted by StephenLawson@Aug 2 2004, 12:48 AM
[b] When did officers quit the maternity tunic and the unbleached linen breeches in favor of the over all field drab with the turned down lapels?

Actually, there are a couple assumptions here that aren't quite correct. The breeches were not of unbleached linen and they were not really the normal wear with the maternity tunic. The breeches were of bedford cord, sometimes called whipcord. The cording is more distinct than in twill, but not nearly as distinct as in corduroy. The khaki maternity tunic had matching khaki breeches. ("Khaki's" in today's men's clothing stores are sort of a tan, fawn color, but when the British Army referred to "khaki" it was referring to the dark olive green/field drab color asked about in the quote.) While the lighter colored breeches were sometimes worn with the maternity tunic, most officers, judging from the photographs of the period, preferred to wear the maternity uniform's matching khaki breeches. The lighter colored whipcord breeches commonly seen in photos are variously described as fawn, beige, tan, etc. They were most often worn with the khaki general service uniform (with the turned down lapels). Straight leg khaki pants or khaki breeches were also worn with the general service uniform. The officers' "jodhpur like" breeches are, in fact, jodhpurs, complete with moleskin (ish?) material at the inside knees. Enlisted personnel wore pantaloons. They were essentially baggy pants gathered at the knees that really were just "jodhpur like" in appearance.

Officer rank was worn on the tunic cuffs of the service dress and on the shoulder epaulets on the maternity tunic. During the war the service dress uniform's cuff lace, pips, etc. were supplanted at the front by rank on the epaulets. The epaulet rank could only be worn on the service dress while overseas, however. It could not be worn on the service dress in Britain until 1917. After the RAF was formed there were two different uniform colors, khaki and blue/grey, authorized for wear. At first the breeches were only available for the khaki uniform, but in July 1919 blue/grey breeches were authorized to be worn with the new RAF uniform. At the same time the fawn breeches were no longer authorized for wear with the khaki service dress. Only khaki breeches were authorized for wear with the khaki service uniform after that point.

Field grade officers (Major and above) did wear the maternity uniform. Men at Arms # 341 includes a photo of a Lt. Col. in the maternity tunic with fawn whipcord breeches (pg. 10). The maternity uniform was originally adopted in 1913 and was an adaptation of the "Lancer" style. It was dropped with the creation of the RAF. The creation of the RAF also saw a return to rank on the tunic cuffs. I don't know when the RAF finally dropped the breeches as an option, but officers in the British Army were still authorized to wear breeches through at least WW 2.