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5 April 2005, 10:15 PM
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#201 (permalink)
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Guest
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Better late than never?
Hello Cadet Leader,
Sorry to be late answering, but photobucket dropped my first set of photos so I needed to rework.
With regard to Ball first, here are a couple photos of British uniforms so you have an idea of color, etc. Ball was in the war early on so would most often have been wearing a service tunic with cuff lace and rank (as in your picture), rather than wearing his rank on the shoulders. (Unless he was in a Maternity uniform--they never had rank on the cuffs, but always on the shoulders). My picture shows the lace and rank for a Major. A Lieutenant would have one or two pips, rather than the crown, and a Captain three pips. The Major also had three bands of lace; Lieutenants would have one (you can see that in your picture of Ball), and Captains would have two. Ball would not have had the same number of chevrons above the lace either. Those are overseas stripes, one per year. Nor would he have had the cord on the left shoulder (if your eyes are very good). It holds a trench whistle which the Major brought with him when he came to the RFC from the trenches (along with a wound stripe on the left foresleeve). The shirt shown is khaki. In your photo Ball is wearing what looks to be a green shirt about the same color as his tunic.
The Maternity uniform looks "two tone" in the photo (breeches vs. tunic), but it is not. It is a much deeper shade of green than is the service uniform, but that was just a matter of different fabric from a different tailor. I included a view of the shoulder pips (Maternity tunics only had shoulder pips, never cuff rank). On the service tunic these same pips were worn on the cuffs. If you have sharp eyes you will see that the pips are again two tone, as compared one to the other. This time they really are two tone. It is just an indication that he bought the second pip some time after the first and the colors didn't quite match. It is the same on each shoulder.
A typical helmet is also included. Mask goggles are shown in one photo, but your photo does not show him with these type of goggles. He may have worn a set, but I haven't looked for that elsewhere.
I also have some info on French uniforms, but I'll post it separately. Here are the photos.
The British uniforms were reposted below. They only came out as thumbnails here. The new ones work properly.
Last edited by Matt Witt; 9 April 2005 at 08:34 AM.
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5 April 2005, 10:59 PM
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#202 (permalink)
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Guest
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Hi Cadet Leader, here is part two.
On French uniforms there were many variations. Most commonly you will see the light blue and the very dark blue (almost black). Examples are shown. (The pale blue here is for an artillery officer, but aviators also wore them.) Regardless of color, they had the same range of insignia. The winged stars on the collars denoted a qualified aviator. The stars I have shown are pretty basic. Some are very ornately embroidered. Pilots also wore an armband with a wing and prop. There was no "wing" as such. Two armbands are shown, one on pale blue fabric (again, pretty basic) and a second on the dark blue armband (much more complex, and more typical).
Eventually, the French did develop a separate pilot's badge, a copy is shown. It is a very pretty badge and it is the only pilot's badge among the combatants that is still in use and unchanged today. You can see on one of the dark blue uniforms that it has the winged stars on the collar, the wing and prop on the left arm, and an embroidered pilot badge on the right breast. He wanted everyone to know he was a pilot! (Only one of the two dark blue uniforms is an airplane pilot's--the one with the chevrons is for an officer on an airship or an observation balloon[?])
Flying clothes were typically black leather, often with a fabric collar. Helmet was usually brown. Guynemer would not have been wearing a hard helmet. Rather, it would have been fairly similar to the Brit helmet shown in the preceeding section, but without the sausage rolls and with smaller ear flaps. (But there were endless variations.)
A number of pilots on both sides preferred fabric coats. The Sidcot flying suit was a heavy twill and was commonly used by the British in the last year of the war. That is a Sidcot beside the British maternity uniform (with the first set of photos). It is tan. It originally had a button on fur collar. Mine has a later (1920's or 30's) replacement for the original button-on fur collar. My impression is that most of the French fabric flying coats were similar to this color. They often had fur collars. There are a number of photos of French aviators in what look to be "trench coats". That style was by and large invented, and certainly greatly popularized during the Great War.
Matt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...eryofficer.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2Vuillemin.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...m1bairship.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...tabs1pilot.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...otbrassard.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...brassard1a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../Aeropict6.png
The last photo has been reposted in a larger format in one of the follow up posts.
Last edited by Matt Witt; 9 April 2005 at 08:34 AM.
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6 April 2005, 07:24 PM
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#203 (permalink)
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Have Goggles Will Travel!
Contributor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: california
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Wow, those are some nice uniforms, Matt! Are those from a museum or is that some of your own collection? Super! Thanks for your detailed answer. During my lunch half hour today, I began painting Albert Ball's uniform from the photos you provided. I'm glad to see a better view of the detailed trim on the sleeve, too. It's hard to make out in the original black and white photo.
Here's the partially roughed in start:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...albertball.jpg
As far as the size of some of your pics appear, I think the reduction happens during the scanning process, unless you are editing them in photobucket to be 25% or 50% size. If you have the convenience of a digital camera you might want to retake the shots of the dark helmet with a lighter background. The details are difficult to see against the dark background.
Last edited by AAC Cadet Leader; 6 April 2005 at 07:52 PM.
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8 April 2005, 10:25 AM
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#204 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
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Looks great so far AAC Cadet Leader!
Warren
__________________
History is the lie we all agree upon.
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8 April 2005, 10:31 AM
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#205 (permalink)
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Have Goggles Will Travel!
Contributor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: california
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Hey, thanks Warren.
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8 April 2005, 07:18 PM
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#206 (permalink)
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Guest
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Photographic Redux: I think I got it right this time!
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8 April 2005, 07:42 PM
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#207 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Contributor
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 544
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Matt -Those are some great pictures. Are they of your collection?
And lovely work AAC Cadet Leader. I look forward to seeing the finished product if you'd be kind enough to post it
Ed
Last edited by greatwarpilot; 8 April 2005 at 07:51 PM.
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8 April 2005, 08:18 PM
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#208 (permalink)
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Guest
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Thank you Ed, and Cadet Leader, the uniforms on the mannequins are mine as is the French pilot's badge. The French uniforms are just file photos. I've been looking for French uniforms, and even bid on a couple lately, but they are harder to find than hen's teeth. You would think France only had 100 aviators in the whole war. I've seen a lot more German and US uniforms (and scads of British Empire) than I have ever seen French. I know the French uniforms are out there, I just can't find them.
Thanks again.
Matt
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8 April 2005, 10:51 PM
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#209 (permalink)
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Have Goggles Will Travel!
Contributor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: california
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Matt,
Thanks for more effort and great pictures of your enviable collection of WWI uniforms, helmets and goggles. How nice that you have an entire room to devote to it. Looks like the guys at your party need a little music and a few drinks to loosen them up though. They're looking a little stiff!!
Is it ever spooky to walk into that room in the dark?
But seriously, I appreciate your assistance! The detail on the sleeve and emblems are especially helpful. Does it look to you like Albert Ball had only one stripe going around his sleeve, unlike your photo shows with three? What do the cuff stripes signify?
Not sure that's right overcoat to drape over his arm, though. The one in the photo of Albert Ball looks to be like a shinier leather and maybe black - but maybe it is brown like your coat. Hmm.
Last edited by AAC Cadet Leader; 8 April 2005 at 11:02 PM.
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9 April 2005, 08:28 AM
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#210 (permalink)
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Guest
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Hi Cadet Leader,
The first time I walked in with one of the figures in the room I nearly had a heart attack. I knew he was going to be in there, but you just don't think about it as you walk into a room and suddenly someone (naked at that!) is standing there with his hands on his hips. Supposedly, it is our guest room, but when we have guests we give them our room and we move upstairs. My wife is worried someone would wake up in the middle of the night and have a heart attack.
You are right about Lt. Ball only having one stripe around his arm. Lts had one, Capts. two, Majors three. If you want to paint Ball as a Captain, he will need three pips and two stripes. In your picture he is a 2d Lt.--one pip and one stripe. I can scan a page showing the spacing for the pips if you want to change his rank.
As to the coat, it may have been a darker brown, but very unlikely black. RNAS used black, but not the RFC. When they were new these coats probably were shiny. Actually my pictures show two different flying coats. One is much darker than the other. If you oil them (and the pilots oiled them) they get darker still. But don't forget that the old films did funny things with the grey & white scale. Red can come out looking darker than royal blue. I know some of the guys here on the site have discussed the tricks the old b&w film can play on you.
Matt
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