DVII radiator drawings needed

[wulffo]

I am looking to find some drawings and measurements of a dvii radiator that corresponds to a Daimler diiia engine. So far I have only a set of drawings of a front mounted radiator from 1915. Do such drawings exist as an original version/were drawings made by the allieds and if so are these usable to build a radiator? I would really need earlier versions which exclude the known somewhat larger versions made for the BMW engines. I believe that Norddeutsche Kuehlerwerke was the manufacturer but am happy to learn about other manufacturers? Are any of these companies still in existence?

[wulffo]

I find this difficult to believe. X people are building dvii? No one has drawings for / information on radiators?? I thought the forum and the people here were coming together to dedicate themselves to preserving wwi aero history??? So much for the spirit of the community and all that.
Thanks and good bye.

[EricGoedkoop]

Wulffo, give them a chance. I'm sure somebody somewhere will be able to help you. Not everyone has a chance to check in on the Forum every day, and I've seen questions posted here that get answered - very satisfactorily - days or even weeks later. People have to do a little digging for some of this stuff. Patience, sir.

[Mark_Miller]

Hi Wulffo
Sorry, I don't believe I have the references you are looking for.
My primary refs have been the datafiles, and as good as these books are, I don't believe they include the kind of information you need.
Fact is, I need the same thing as I want to make some images of the DVII with the cowling removed.
And for this i would need details of the back of the radiator.

But, I think this is complicated by the fact that different radiators were used.
I'm particularly interested in the early Fokker variant.

in any case
If you find anything useful, I'd love to see it as well
I will, of course, forward to you anythiing that might come my way

[joegertler]

Hi Wullfo;
Sounds like you had a bad day, yesterday. We all have them and throw things against the wall and quit for a day or two..But I have to believe that the exciting project and work that is being accomplished with you and Achim, will fire you up again,as soon as you get over those "Blues." I almost feel guilty for not answering you sooner-but you have to remember that you only posted a request for radiator info only yesterday.. I was involved with frustrating paperwork and trips back and forth to my accountant for tax work for the past three days. Probably the LAST thing I WANTED to do-but these unpleasant things must be attended to.
I've sent you a private email with contact information for my best three potential sources for the radiator information that you seek. And that is not even including whatever Dan-San might come up with (also some potential, there). Hope Achim's next progress report, or finsihed part or system re-invigorates your enthusiasm. Don't be too hard on us lazy forumites..

Wullfo; I was just thinking about the contacts that I suggested in my off-line email to you. NONE of those people EVER read this forum and NONE of those people use the Internet or email or computers.
Pretty amazing.. But they have spent decades building and reseaching D. VIIs and other WWI aircraft. When you are dealing or interested in history, most people don't realize that the field is filled with a lot of old-timers who prefer to work and produce and research and build on their own efforts of past decades rather than seek info on the Internet or do emails. Even the editor of WWI AERO magazine NEVER reads this forum & never emails etc. I'd say that half of the people I do business with, trade, with, correspond with NEVER email or use the Internet. Of those, most are set in their old ways of doing things (which has been very successful and fulfilling to them) and some are intimidated by the assumed complexities of computer use and usefullness.
I remember for MANY many years telling customers who bought my instruments and parts-and were building replicas-"How can you be in such a complex project and NOT subscribe to WWI AERO magazine with all the contact information and sources and research available there?" STILL probably half of them preferred to go it alone and not even LOOK at that great source of help. Today I STILL ask them that question, but I ALSO ask, "Hopw can you not get a computer and see what is readily available to help you on the Internet or theaerodrome.com forum?" But still there are MANY of the best builders who don't wan't to get caught up in the distractions, and feel they have enough info and sources to remain singularly focused on their own project, in a world of their own and very happy and satisfied with that..
35-40 years ago, I wondered the same thing when trying to contact people who could only be reached by mail! How could people do without a telephone!!!!??? But some of them had INCREDIBLE accomplishments and collections.. Don't be soured by lack of immediate Internet response. I used to be calm about Intenational correspondence to include some needed photos which would take a week to get back the photo-a week to email to Europe- a week or more to get a response- a week to make my reply etc. (cost probaly ten dollars or so with film & psotage)
Now I take a digital photo, get it to a party in Europe (or the other side of the world where it isn't even the same calendar day!) in seconds (sometimes)-get a reply in seconds-reply again all within a minute or two. at a couple of pennies cost! Perspective, my good friend..

[wolfenbill]

I too may have access to postwar D.VII drawings of the radiator, etc. But it may be a week or two before I can be near them geographically. I'll see what I can find.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Wulfo:
In World War 1 Aero, No.148, May 1995 pp100-103, is the Fok.D.VII radiator Don Dotson drew up from the the Radiator from a Norddeutsche Kühlerfabrik that was at the Suitland facility of the NASM.
There are 4 pages @ $3.00 each =$12.00 plus $1.50 for postage and handling. Don died shortly after the drawings were published. I believe Dick Enos would have the Dotson drawings, the radiator in his Fok.D.VII was made from Dotson drawings. I don't have his address or phone number, Dick lives in Santa Maria, California.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[joegertler]

That is great news Dan-San. I had sent Dick's phone and address to Wulffo this A.M. and thought he was worth a "try". Now you have confirmed the specific information is available. You've heard it here a thousand times before, but "Thanks."
Has anyone heard form Neil Thomas who also built some D.VII radiators after a lot of research? I think the last one was for John Talmage's two seater D.VII project. I saw it many times as our old shop was only 1/2 mile down the road..-a beauty! I know he had made a number of special forming tools for the project and certainly made careful detailed dwgs. Neil sold off his engines and his projects some years back. Wonder if he is still at the same phone # in New Jersey?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Wulfo:
I am sorry I was so slow in responding to your e-mail. I hope you will accept my apology.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[AchimEngels]

Thanks guys,

The drawings by Don Dotson are at hand, as are the Swiss drawings and the the American post war studies on the D.VII radiator performance (thanks to Dave Watts for these).

However, Wulffo and me are looking for actual Norddeutsche Kühlerfabrik factory drawings for the Mercedes D.III/D.IIIa radiator.

There is a project at Fürstenwalde of a Fokker D.VII as well and those guys have built their radiator from a set of original Drawings, but unfortunately these drawings are no longer available, since one of the men involved in the project took them away.

We have borrowed this radiator and found out that it was way too thick to fit in between the Mercedes engine and the airscrew. Most probably therefore this radiator must have been designed for another engine, most probably the BMW III, but we are not certain.

Are there no original radiator drawings of the Norddeutsche Kühlerfabrik known to have survived?

Achim