German and Allied balloon losses

[Romani]

I found a Spanish history of the air war written in the 30s. On a footnote there was this statistic

German balloon loses: 525

(470 downed by aircraft, 55 by artillery)

Are there any figures for Allied balloons?

[rammjaeger]

Romani,

the offical German numbers - given in "Die deutschen Luftstreitkräfte im Weltkriege" - are the following:

471 destroyed by enemy aviators
75 destroyed by artillery
(sum 546)
109 destroyed by "höhere Gewalt" (= higher force: wind, weather, accidents)
Total sum 655

Another 505 ballons became "unuseable" and were written-off because of damages after enemy fire and other causes.

So it is more likely that ca 1000 German balloons were lost as result of enemy action.

[rammjaeger]

Romani,

"The War with Germany, A Statistical Summary" by Leonhard P. Ayres, Colonel, General Staff reports the loss of 43 US-American balloons and claims 71 German balloons brought down in action.

[leo]

How many German Drachens did the British claim?

[Graeme]

Leo

On the Western Front:

RFC/RNAS/RAF: 344
France: 256
USAS: 57
Belgium: 50
AFC: 33

total: 720

Graeme

[rammjaeger]

Hm,

I thought 344+256+57+50+33=740 ?

BTW what is the source for your USAS number, Graeme?

[Soderbaum]

Hm...

The information I have is that the French Air Service claimed a total of 371 Balloon victories* during the War.
This is, as I have mentioned before, based on official statistic published by the French Air Service shortly after the War. It also "very well" corresponds with official numbers given in monthly reports during the War...

*not included DCA


Gunnar

[Graeme]

Rammjaeger

The numbers do indeed total 740 - I was getting ahead of myself without actually catching up! Of the RFC etc claims, as many as 20 fall into the categories of "smoking", "deflated", "driven down" or "on the ground", so the RFC etc total becomes 324 and the overall figure becomes 720.

There are numerous reports by pilots in which the balloon is not actually seen to catch fire, simply that upon looking back, the balloon was no longer visible but smoke was seen at the location. As to how many of these "victories" should be excluded is anybody's guess.

The USAS compilation comes from various sources - Over The Front, Study 133, Cross & Cockade journals etc. This generates the following "scores:

A H Treadwell - 1
A J Weatherhead - 3
A McLanahan - 1
C E Wright - 1
C G Grey - 1
E L McCubbin 1
E R Clark + B F Giles - 1
E V Rickenbacker - 5
F Luke - 14
G E Turnure - 2
G O Woodard - 1
H C Smith - 1
H Coolidge - 3
H R Buckley - 1
H R Hall - 1
H S Loomis - 1
H W Cook - 4
I A Roberts - 1
J A Meissner - 1
J C Vasconcells - 1
J Dewitt - 1
J E McGehee - 1
J F Wehner - 5
K W Matheson - 1
L B Cooper - 1
L C Holden - 5
L H Dawson - 1
R deB Vernam - 2
R G Conant + J F Curry - 1
R M Chambers - 1
S P Gaillard - 1
S Sewall - 1
T F Lennon - 1
W E Brotherton - 1
W L Avery - 1
W Thaw - 1
W W White - 1
Z R Miller - 2

Allowing for shared claims, I arrive at 57 balloon victories (excluding claims by most of the two-seater units). It is evident that the details I have in this respect, and for French claims, are less than comprehensive.

Graeme

[stephen]

Originally Posted by Graeme

There are numerous reports by pilots in which the balloon is not actually seen to catch fire, simply that upon looking back, the balloon was no longer visible but smoke was seen at the location. As to how many of these "victories" should be excluded is anybody's guess.

I'm not defending false claims, but we should be aware that some which appear to be false after a cursory review may, in fact, be genuine.

There are scads of records of German balloons which were attacked and damaged (but not flamed), and as a result, the Balloonzug had to inflate its secondary balloon (each unit held one spare balloon in reserve) while the first was taken out of action. So a pilot could damage a balloon, force it to the ground and force its removal from service for repair and possibly remove the observer from action for a period of time as well, but never have claimed a kill.

That may not account for all the potential exclusions you speak of, but it did happen many times; enough to be a major factor in such quantifications.

[agblume]

Does anyone have any data on the number of German (and/or Austro-
Hungarian) balloon losses there were on the Russian, Romanian, Sebian
or Italian fronts? i have a number of Russian and Romanian claims by
air and ground fire, but have been unable to verify any of them.

do the numbers listed in the previous threads include German balloon
losses by ground fire? another question arises, the Germans admit
546 losses by enemy air and artillery (??? all fronts), and the Allies
on Western Front claimed between 720 and 740, that leaves a
difference of between 174 and 194 balloons. there is also a variance
of French claims of 371 and 256, which raises the question as to
whether the French claims included fronts other than the Western.

all these questions arise when considering the other "forgotten fronts"
and the losses by ground fire. perhaps some members have examined
these questions. i certainly wish i could find some answers. thanks
fro any assistance. august