American aviation in Italy

[alexmehtidis]

Hello,

Americans ( both Army and Navy ) used Italy as a training ground
mostly ( though army pilots were attached to Caproni Squadriglie
and took part in combat missions - 65 and the USAF flag wears a
rainbow stremer inscribed ' Vittorio Veneto 1918 ' to commemorate the
last operations of these pilots, No. 9 in Group 2 on the Air Force Ceremonial Flag - and naval personnel flew operationally with Macchi M.5s - the first American airman to receive the congressional Medal of Honour, Ensgin Mammann, got it for his action off Pola on August 21st, 1918 - ).

Army used Foggia and the Navy used Lake Bolsena, Pescara and Porto Corsini.

But all the above is well known, less known, I believe, are :

Plans for an operational station at San Severo to base 80 Caproni
bombers that did not materialize, due to the end of the war. It would be
the largest bomber base of all the Entente forces with a strength,
according to American estimates, of 1,364 people.

Mention is also made of a detachment being assigned to Poggio
Renatico on September 26th for service with a US Navy aviation unit
after receiving training on flying-boats at Lake Bolsena .

American naval personnel seem also to have been trained at Taranto
from January 1918.

Army also used, for a short while, the school at Furbara for fighter pilots aerial gunnery practise and there were plans to train observers too.

A 3rd Air Service Mecahnics detachment ( called, among others, US Air Service Contingent, Milan ) was sent to the the Caproni and Isotta-Fraschini factories at Milano for training as aviation mechanics and other Americans were sent to the Fiat factory
at Torino.

I have two ( ...three ) questions about this American involvement :

1. Treadwell ( 'America's first air war - The United States Any, Naval
and Marine Air Services in the First World War' ) mentions a
'USMCAS Ponta Delgada', a Marine Corps Air Station in Italy, with
nothing more...Would any-one know anything about it ?

2. Americans attached to Italian Caproni squadriglie claimed 3 enemy airplanes shot down according to the American official listing of WW I victory credits - though Gentili / Variale 'Reparti...' do not mention anything about enemy airplanes shot down - ( Lieutenant Alexander M. Craig on June
24th, 1918 and Lieutenants James L. Bahl Jr. and Dewitt Coleman on
October 27th, 1918 with 6a Squadriglia ) - source : Dr. Maurer Maurer, ' Flying with Fiorello - The U.S. Air Service in Italy 1917-1918 ', The Airpower
Historian, October 1964, Volume XI Number 4 -. Would anyone know if
that is so and what were these particular Austro-Hungarian planes ?

3. There is a USNAS Fromentine mentioned but that's in France I
presume.

Please, correct me if anything above is not correct...

Thanks, Alexis Mehtidis

[ONEALM]

Alexis -

Bahl and Coleman were credited with 2 victories on the day they were in turn shot down. Dewitt Coleman was a Tenafly, New Jersey native who trained at Foggia and later instructed there for a short time before being posted to the 11th Gruppo, 6th Squadrillia.

The general belief is that Coleman and Bahl were downed by Lt. Roman Schmidt, CO of FLIK 74J as his 6th and final victory. While the crew was credited with two EA shot down, there is no evidence in the Austrian records to support that. Both Bahl and Coleman were decorated posthumously - Bahl with the Medaglia D'Argent and Coleman with the Medaglia D'Oro. Two Italian aircrew were also lost in this encounter and they are rarely mentioned but deserve to be - Tenente osservatore Vincenzo Cutello and Sergente mitraglieri Tarcisco Canterutti.

Here's a shot of Bahl and Coleman, courtesy of NASM.

The other Italian bases are fairly well covered in John Sloan's book Wings of Honor. I do not have it at hand (here at work).

If you need anything else on Coleman, I'll be pleased to provide it.

Mike

[alexmehtidis]

Dear Mike,

thanks for your prompt answer to one of the series of questions
I posted.

Gentili / Variale ' I reparti dell'aviazione italiana nella Grande
Guerra ' says about the Bahl / Coleman last encouner :

'On October 27th six planes took off from Tombette to bomb Vittorio
Veneto...Ca.11669 did not return and its crew was composed of
the American pilots De Witt and Bahl and the Italians Cutello and
Cantarutti. It was later learned that the Italian bomber was attacked and shot down in the skies of Pergine by five fighters with the death of its whole
crew. Among the Austrian fighter pilots were Oberleutnant Roman
Schmit and Emmerich von Horvath. Lieutenant De Witt gained the Medaglia
d'Oro al Valor Militare.'

But what about Lieutenant Alexander M. Craig's victory on June
24th, 1918 ? He was part of the first contingent of pilot-trainees
sent to Foggia and was attached to 7a Squadriglia with another
5 Americans in the summer of 1918. Gentili / Variale mention
an enemy fighter shot down on June 24th by Ca.11497 ( crew
sottotenente Edgardo Farina - pilot -, observator Cuscianna and
machine-gunner De Villoni ) of 7a Squadriglia but no mention of Mr.
Craig in the crew...

What do you mean by 'The other Italian bases are fairly well covered in John Sloan's book Wings of Honor'. Which bases, army ones - Foggia - or the book mentions also the navy ones ?

My main interest in posting these questions were :

- 'USMCAS Ponta Delgada'...?

- any info, or corroboration with anyone willing to share, on the organisation of the various bases I mention as existing. Could you say if there would be anything of interest to me in ' Wings of honour ' ?

Are you dealing with the New Jersey aircrew biographies (...only 307 remaining ) mentioned below the Bahl / Coleman photo attached ? All the best with it.

Thanks again, Alexis Mehtidis

[Barrett]

Also note that the first in-flight Medal of Honor went to Quartermaster Charles Hammann, flying his Macchi M.5 over Pola amidst a flock of Austro-Hungarians. You could read all about it in Above & Beyond: the Aviation Medals of Honor by Good Old Whatsisname but the Smithsonian Press crashed & burned last year, without compensating any authors. Ironically, Hammann was killed demonstrating a Macchi in the states a year later. (The destroyer named for him was sunk alongside the first carrier Yorktown at the Battle of Midway.)

[gilles]

Hello

3. There is a USNAS Fromentine mentioned but that's in France I
presume.

yes you are right. It is on the atlantic ocean, sw of Nantes.

About 'USMCAS Ponta Delgada', it may sound italian but actually it's portuguese!
It should be the US naval base established in 1917 in the Azores. There was flying boats stationed there.

gilles

[alexmehtidis]

Mike,

thanks for the update on American aviation medals in Italy.

Gilles,

how STUPID of mine...( about USMCAS Ponta Delgada )!!!

Alexis Mehtidis

[alexmehtidis]

I meant thanks Barrett for the update on American aviation medals in Italy
(...just noticed ).

Gilles,

I have it ( Ponte Delgada ) in books, articles etc. but you need PEOPLE
to remind you.

Alexis Mehtidis

[VictoriaNobis]

Hi to everyone. I'm a newbie and I write from Italy, exactly Vittorio Veneto ( ).
I've more news about De Witt's shot down the early morning of the 27th october 1918 in Vittorio Veneto (and not Pergine).
First of all he and his crew were shot down on the sky of Vittorio Veneto after a bombing of austrian headquarters and crashed on the half of Visentin mountain, over the town of Revine (nominaly 3 km from Vittorio, Pergine is about 100 km). Their bodies were found and taken away by Alessandro Tandura (the first man which paratrooped himself behin enemy lines in august 1918, for spyng stuff) and the priest of Revine the 31th of october and buried two days later in cementery of Revine.
The reasearch has been done by colonel Cadeddu (WWI hystorical researcher) in 2002 and he found these news on priest register of Revine.
How came the news about the 2 victories of De Witt? Is always Alessandro Tandura in his book "Tre mesi di spionaggio oltre Piave" (three spying month behind the Piave), edit in 1934, which tells first the bombing and after the austrian planes attack. The planes, says Tandura, came from direction Ponte nelle Alpi (where lt. Roman Schmidt had the base) and, during a hard fighting, two austrian planes fall in flame. One of them has described "As a line of flames crashing on a field of Sant'Andrea (is a rion of the town of Vittorio Veneto). It is possibile that austrian authorities did'nt sign the loose of the planes cause the totally and disastrous defeat they had in that days.
The same planes shot down another Caproni inthe afternoon in the sky of SanPietro di Feletto (rua), town between Conegliano and Vittorio Veneto.

Last thing: the city of Vittorio Veneto is thinking to name a street to DeWitt

[Soderbaum]

Hi Victoria and welcome to the Forum...!

Interesting added information from you....However like Alexis I still wonder... "WHO" confirmed the two victories on 27 Oct 18...??

I doubt that Tanduro was in the capacity to make such decisions...

As what I can see none of the two Italian crews received any confirmation of the possible victory claims...see page 13 in the book of Italian Aces...

For me these two claims seems to have been some sort of journalistic "good story"...


Gunnar

[VictoriaNobis]

""WHO" confirmed the two victories on 27 Oct 18...??"

I think no one. There was a quit confusion on that days.
For example the plane was signed as shot in "Pergine" (a town near Trento) and not "Revine", as buries documents says.
And the crew couldn't testimony facts, because they were shot just immediatly after they shotdown austrian planes.
In that day, in Vittorio Veneto, there were only Tandura as italian officer (we are behind austrian lines, remember, and he was a spy) and he made his report few weeks after the armistice and, probably, didn't made effects for signing victories (war was over). The book was written in last years of twenties by Tandura.
The austrian planes were engaged in three or four fighting in that day and the day after they had to run back to Austria cause advancing of allies troops. So its believeble that no one made a report of lost planes or where they lost them. For example it sure that Roman Schmidts' planes shut down another Caproni that day over SanPietro di Feletto-RUa (it was an italian crew and there is a plate remembering it on the church of Rua) but is not signed as Schmidts' victory.
The facts probably are that, cause of Revine to Pergine missunderstanding, official books "lost" the Colemans' Caproni as fighting against Schmidts' planes over Vittorio Veneto. This is the problem which found Colonel Cadeddu on military files when he did his researchs.