Bomb New York ??

10 May 2003, 09:50 PM

Well.....this is all speculation ...which is a lot of fun ...so I suppose no-one will mind a newbie like me throwing in my thoughts .
I'm thinking that if Dan says this raid was possible ...then indeed it was ( it dosen't take too long before a newbie realises that Dan knows his stuff !! )...but i wonder about how servicability would be after such a long arduous flight like that ??..and also the man power needed to maintain and service this fleet of airships ....considering the Naval blockade of Germany ..and the material shortages ..maybe this is a reason why such a series of raids was never attempted ??.
If only one such raid was staged ...then apart from a show of defiance ..it would have been a wasted effort ..Sure there would have been panic and fear in the affected city's ..and a strong reaction from the civilian population ( towards the government for more protection ..and perhaps hatred towards the Germans )....but this would not have helped to win the war for Germany ...and as the March 1918 offensives show , they still believed they could and would win the war ...but only by taking ground ...quickely...before the full impact of the United States manpower and manufacturing potencial took effect..and as Ludendorff said " knocking France's best sword out of her hand "...namely Britain .
If it had taken place ..then maybe a result of the raid would have been that Wilson would have put a 44 point plan to the Germans instead of his famous 14 point plan ...just to drag hostilities out until the Handley Page 0/1500 Squadrons were ready and had leveled some of Berlin as a pay back ???.
Anyway ..I await a good verbal beating for my comments

Phil

Tailspin · 11 May 2003, 02:41 PM

Dan,

I didn't mean to imply that the US Navy had any carriers before 1922 when Langley was converted. They had, however, expeimented with tailhook landings as early as 1914, meeting increasing resistance from the Navy Brass. Now, if our hypothetical Zeppelin raid proves that those smae Navy Brass have failed to protect our cities from the Germans, I assert that there would have been renewed pressure to build or convert ships capable of retaliation. Langley was built in 1912 as the collier Jupiter. She had a sister, the ill-fated Cyclops. Neptune, Proteus, Nereus, Orion and Jason were colliers of similar dimensions. That's seven candidate right there. The US Navy also had a large force of obsolescent Armored and Protected Cruisers to choose from. This is all speculation, of course. There's always the possibility that the Navy will just sit by and let the Army retaliate for the Navy's embarrasment. (Nah! I really don't believe that would happen).

Tailspin · 11 May 2003, 02:42 PM

Typo: smae = same

11 May 2003, 03:38 PM

Just an afterthought about a possible Naval ( and surface Naval matters are my weakest subject ) retaliation ...and then as a lowely Observer ....I'll shut up about non air related matters .
It's just that the German High Seas Fleet hadn't been tempted out of port since Jutland ( mainly )...and the only response I can think of is that any American Task Force ( with or without a/c carriers )...would have been engaged by a force thats main priority would have been to bring the U.S. group across the path of a waiting u-boat trap . The closer this Group got to Germany ..The more certain the u-boat trap would be of working .
I could go on about this ...but I won't as I don't want to get the Aces pissed at me for sending in messages of a non aviation interest .

Dan_San_Abbott · 11 May 2003, 05:07 PM

Gentlemen:
I think there were several factors that caused the Germans to give pause on the attack on the U.S.A.
1. Loss of the dynamic leader, Peter Strasser.
2. The failure at the Battle of Matz, 9 June 1918
3. The failure of the Battle of Rheims, 15 July 1918.
4. The British success at the Battle of Amiens, 8 August 1918. And the Allied successes that followed.
Bogohl Nr.3 had stopped bombing England.
I believe all of these events had a profound effect on what the German Supreme Command planned to do. They had ran out of manpower, at home, and in replacements for the Army, just about everything was on the shortage list, I personnally think they were looking for the best deal to out of a terrible situation.
Bombing New York was not in their best interests, IF they were looking for the best way out.
Production goals could not be met,aircraft and engine production had priority No. 2, right behind the Submarines, No.1, Aircraft production goals could not be met. Food rationed @ 1500 calories /day, (you don't mine coal @ 1500 calories /day!) coal, oil,gasoline(benzine), cotton, rubber, copper, electrical power to make aluminum a major problem,(coal) Germany was bankrupt.
If it had been politically and militarially to their advantaged , the Germans could have and would have bombed the east coast of the U.S. They had the means!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Alan · 12 May 2003, 03:13 AM

Not that I can offer anything more substantive that already hasn't been mentioned, but, a raid on New York IMHO would have been best carried out as early as possible before America had even begun mobilizing. *

The Germans were seemingly terrified, by the war's latter years, of a fully mobilized American military, were they not? *1918 began in earnest for the Germans because they had to find a way to win the war fast, correct?

To plan and execute an attack that would only serve to embolden the United States would seem foolish at that stage.

To plan an attack earlier would be unnecessary given Wilson's reticence to go to war in the first place.

Bottom line: *I don't think it made a lick of sense to waste the effort on attacking the US when attacking Britain and France couldn't be done successfully.

Hey BlackSeptember: *We were all new once so chill, bro. *Posts aren't indicative of knowledge; just look at mine! *As long as you contribute you are a valuable addition to this place. *Just be warned: *Anything Bishop or who killed Ball can get things a little heated. *Other than that, welcome! *;D

12 May 2003, 06:01 AM

Thanks for the advise Alan

I must admit , I am enjoying this great place very much , I can see there are many , many fine historians here , and i suppose i'm just being consious of not wanting to sound like an idiot ....or even worse ..a know it all .
The idiot part is very simple for a bush aussie ..hahahaha .
And thanks for the welcome

. I'm having a good time .

Tailspin · 12 May 2003, 01:35 PM

Black Septewmber,

You're right. Unlike the Americans, the Germans did have defenses in place against an attack from aircraft coming in over the sea, and there were lots of experienced U Boats out there that could interfere with the American retaliation. I was only speculating on how the retaliation would be attempted. I never said it would work.

I'm a long time lurker and a newbie contributor myself. Welcome!

Tailspin · 12 May 2003, 01:36 PM

Black September,

Sorry about the typo in your name line.

Tom

Alan · 12 May 2003, 01:59 PM

BlackSeptember & Tailspin...just fyi..if you see a typo after you post just click on the "modify message" deal in the upper right corner of your post....the only thing with that is you can only "save" your correction and do nothing else..but, you can do that as often as you like and then you won't need to post apologies for typos...believe me, we all make oodles of mistakes here and use that tool....

cheers