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4 February 2003, 07:21 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 304
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Hello again,
Many accounts of aerial combat suggest that it was done at dangerously i.e. near-collision, distances. If you were a poor shot, maybe that would be necessary, but even marksmen like  Albert Ball, did it. Maybe these were the accepted tactics of the day?? Thanks, willy
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4 February 2003, 11:19 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,809
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As the hunting adage goes, "If you can get closer, get closer. If you can get steadier, get steadier."
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You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training. |
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4 February 2003, 12:56 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: A Place Far, Far Away
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Willy, they were the accepted tactics up to the Korean war and for all I know, currently.
Hartmann did not start scoring in his 109 until well into his second *year*, finally heeding his Sq. leader's tutelage and closing within an est 50 meters (less) of target, part of which ended up in/on his a/c. From there, he added another 351 a/c. What Barrett said. In spades. This is brutal, but killing is a street fight. An assassination. 'Flying and stunting' is not really offensive tactics. It's evasion. And unless desperate, damned useless, at that....just an opinion.
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"A King may move a man, a father may claim a son, but remember that even when those who move you be Kings, or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus." Or that, "Virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice.." -Baldwin Four of The Baldwin Piano Company |
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5 February 2003, 12:28 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, Texas by way of Joisey
Posts: 575
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"One does not need to be an aerobatic artist or trick shooter; rather, [one has] to have the courage to fly right up to the opponent." - Rittmeister
Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen, from his "Air Combat Operations Manual"
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Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. -Theodore Roosevelt  |
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5 February 2003, 02:28 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: A Place Far, Far Away
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and learned from Herr Boelcke.
WW2 pilots on both sides commented how the more things change, the more they remain the same. I would think VN pilots thought likewise. semi-related: Did any one catch the X-plane program on Nova last night? Boeing and Lockheed, X-32 and X-34? VTOL as well as supersonic on the Lockheed 'craft? A well-done show. Comp looked brutal.
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"A King may move a man, a father may claim a son, but remember that even when those who move you be Kings, or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus." Or that, "Virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice.." -Baldwin Four of The Baldwin Piano Company |
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6 February 2003, 01:42 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, Texas by way of Joisey
Posts: 575
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true...the reason for the invention of the Top Gun school during Vietnam was because our pilots lost the ability to dogfight.
It's one thing to stand off at 50+ miles and vape an enemy and quite another to really get into a good ol' fashioned furball. Hats off, too, to the fact that MvR patterned much of what he did from "Dicta Boelcke." I mean, really when you get right down to it, it makes better sense to get real close before blasting away due to deflection, inertia, speed, you know, physics things. *Whereas if you're on someone's "six" at close range it is easier to blast away with economy. * 
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Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. -Theodore Roosevelt |
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