Air actions at Verdun and balance of forces, Feb. '16

[JG1Hautzmayer]

Hello,

Hmm, I seem to have been erased at some point from the member list!

Can someone fill me in on the general air situation around Verdun in February 1916? I'd like just a rough idea of the forces in the area and who had the upper-hand.
I'm curious as in reading first-hand accounts of the battle there seem to have been three French observation balloons flying on 20 February, and I'm wondering how much observation the French were able to do in the run-up to the German offensive.
The weather was also very bad for weeks before the battle started, and I'm wondering how much flying was possible.

I've recently moved, and my books have not caught up to me, so I have no reference material at all to work from, and internet searches have not yielded too much information.

Thanks,

Hautz

[TomVrille]

Originally Posted by JG1Hautzmayer

Can someone fill me in on the general air situation around Verdun in February 1916? I'd like just a rough idea of the forces in the area and who had the upper-hand.

Greetings Hautz...

Your question is rather broad in scope, but a few general observations may be of some help for starters.

According to Early German Aces of Wrld War 1, the German 5th Army had assembled a force of some 168 aircraft for the Verdun operation. From various other sources, I gather that only about one in eight of these aircraft were Fokker Eindecker fighters. The fighters were grouped into several KEK formations based at Bantheville, Jametz, and Avillers. At the outset of the battle for Verdun, the French had a single fighter escadrille in the area, but within three weeks, an additional five fighter escadrilles arrived, and formed into a group at Behonne near Bar-le-Duc. This gave the French an approximate two-to-one advantage in fighter strength. A number of the French fighter aircraft were Nieuport 11s, with markedly superior performance when compared to the Eindecker.

The few available Eindeckers were initially deployed in barrier patrols, but their numbers were never adequate to establish an effective blockade, and the rapid accumulation of flying hours put a number of aircraft out of service for maintenance or rework. As a result, the French gradually gained the 'upper hand'.

Hope this helps get the discussion going.

[retread]

I have mentioned it before but a good resource for this period is "Sharks Among Minnows" by Norman Franks. Using losses as an indicator of air activity there seemed to be a fair amount of flying early in the month of February (1st, 2nd,3rd and 5th. The 3rd I include because Guynemer scored a double kill that day although he was not yet in the Verdun area) then little if any seeming air activity until nearly the start of the offensive. Action recorded on the 20th, 21st, 26th and inference of flying on one or two days between (the 21st and 26th). It is stated that the Germans had "21 Fokker and Pfalz monoplanes organized into three Kek units" with Boelcke attached to the one out of Jametz.
Allied losses for February are given at 20 aircraft, "13 in combat, 5 from ground fire with two more having landed in German lines, cause unclear. The Germans admitted six of its aircraft as missing." The allied losses of course include French and U.K.

[JG1Hautzmayer]

Thanks Gents for the answers, I really appreciate it.

I still wonder about the 3 French balloons flying on the 20th, that seems rather remarkable.

I may have to look into some German sources (I'm living in Germany..no easy access to any English books). I'm very curious how much activity there was betwen 11 and 21 February.

Hautz

[retread]

Doesn't really seem to fit the bad weather scenario I had preconcieved.
From the book ," An American for Lafayette. The Diaries of E.C.C. Genet, Lafayette Escadrille." As of February 1916 Genet was in the 3rd Regiment of March, of the French Foreign Legion. By Feb. 1 they garrisoned at or near the town of Crevecoeur, which as best as I can tell is 60-70 miles northwest of Paris. His breakdown of the months weather;
Feb. 1. Tues.- "Fine Day"
Wed.2-" Good day but chilly."
Thur.3- "Good day"
Fri.4- "Fair day"
Sat. 5- "Fine day"
Sun.6- "Fair day"
Mon.7- "Fine day"
Tues. 8-"Fine day"
Wed. 9- "Snow in early a.m. but fine later."
Thur.10- "Good day"
Fri.11- "Very miserable rainy day."
Sat. 12- "Good day". This was the day the offensive was originally planned to start but was delayed until the 21st because of weather. I suppose the previous days rain.
Sun. 13- "Rainy day'
Mon.14- "Rainy Day"
Tues. 15- "Fine day"
Wed.16- "Rainy day"
Thur.17- "Good day. Cold".
Fri. 18- "Fair day."
Sat. 19-"Rainy day."
Sun. 20- "Good day."
Mon. 21- "Good day".
Tues. 22 "Good day."
Wed. 23- Genet does not comment on the weather. However his regiment is moved into the line north of Compeigne. Maybe 50 miles N.N.E. of Paris.
Thur. 24- "Bleak day"
Fri. 25- "Snowy day"
Sat. 26- "Snowy day."
Sun. 27- "Rainy miserable day."
Mon. 28- "Rainy day."
Tues. 29- "Fair day."
What surprises me is the amount of good weather between Feb. 5th and the beggining of the Verdun offensive. France is a comparatively small country, does the weather pattern allow for much difference between
conditions from 50 miles north of Paris to about 100 miles east? It seems if the weather was much the same between Crevecouer and Verdun there would of been more obvious flight activity in the area of the latter. Particularly just prior to one of the colossal offensives of the war. Winds aloft? Perhaps the German's attempt to downplay?

[gilles]

Hello,

The french HQ did not expect a german attack in Verdun. So, the 21st february 1916, there was only 6 escadrilles at Verdun (2 fighters sq.) and because it was considered a quiet sector, these were flying obsolete planes (Caudron G3, Farman MF11, Nieuport 10).
Immediatly, fighter detachments then complete escadrilles were sent to Verdun (probably every important french ace flew over Verdun in 1916). However it was not until april that the french HQ considered that they had aerial superiority over the battlefield.
Before the battle, observation missions (source do not say if by planes or balloons) on 6th, 7th and 20th february saw an increase of railway traffic and troop movements, but still the attack was a complete surprise.
(ref: Icare #85 : l'aviation militaire française 1914/1918 part 1)

About the observation balloons, I don't have a lot of informations. The first days, the balloons were attacked by airplanes while their ground support and communication system was bombed by the artillery. The 22nd february, 2 units (47th and 48th compagnies) were sent to Verdun so I guess there was active french observation ballons, even if the air supremacy was clearly german.
(ref : "sentinelles de l'air" by Mortane, not really an historical essay...more anecdotal)

Gilles

[totoroman]

I'm researching this very same subject for a crude Red Baron 3d patch for offline play... so I'll post anything interesting that I find here as I can.

(actually, I'm trying to find the order of battle for the Somme offensive as well)

one of the curious passages I was reading last night is from Jean Beraud Villars' "Notes of a Lost Pilot" where he describes the aerial activity over Verdun, in May of 1916. he was a member of Escadrille MF 44 flying what I'm thinking is the MF40. what makes this following passage interesting is that Fokkers and Rumplers (aka faster German two-seaters like the Rumpler, possibly later Albatros and Roland C-types) seemed to be viewed as equally threatening to the antiquated Farman and other French two-seaters. (page 22, paragraph 2 and 3)

"to help the Nieuports which were given too much to do with reduced effectiveness, groups of twin-engined planes were formed to protect the range-finding, liaison, and photographic missions, but in vain. these G.IV exert themselves to the utmost, accept combat, and have downed some Boches, taking a beating. But they cannot contain an enemy aviation which is aggressive, numerous, and well organized."

"Briefly then, despite the efforts, the courage and energy of our escadrilles, we have not succeeded in dominating the Boche. Our observation planes of the Army Corps are denied access to the German lines while the Fokkers, Rumplers and the Aviatiks daily fly over our trenches, spot our positions and knock down our Voisons and Farmans right up to our batteries."

so even four month laters the French were still having trouble wresting control of the air from the Germans... at least to judge from this account.

I'm reading through the Davilla monster about French aircraft and it breaks down a lot of the units--not all in one place, mind you... but I could probably scrabble up a decent "order of battle" for the French. from what I've seen the vast majority of combats probably took place between competing two-seater types. we actually see a variety of Caudron aces show up during this time! it shows how intensely the battle was raging in the air with all types of aircraft! and, Hautz, if you're the same RB3d JG1 guy I think you are... I could try to email you some of the stuff I've conjured up.

Salute!
"Kurtz"

[JG1Hautzmayer]

"What surprises me is the amount of good weather between Feb. 5th and the beggining of the Verdun offensive. France is a comparatively small country, does the weather pattern allow for much difference between
conditions from 50 miles north of Paris to about 100 miles east...."

It seems it does. The Verdun region is famous for its bad weather. I was there last February and had mixed rain and snow on the first day of my visit, alternating about every 30 mins!

If you'd like, you can take a look at the photos here:

http://www.werkost.com

Follow the link to "Verdun photos."

Thanks to everyone for the information. I'm doing some research on the battle and the air part is something I know little about, and this is helping a lot.

One aspect of the German attack were the amount of French positions not marked on the German maps. I was curious if this was because they were hard to spot in the woods, or they had been built in the period between 11-21 February, as some of the Germans on the spot had beleived.

To say the French were completely surprised by the attack is not really 100% accurate. They were surprised on a startegic or operational level, but they had indications. There were deserters who spilled the beans, and pretty good indications of the artillery build up. In the French Official history annexes there are the daily reports on enemy activity--they make some pretty interesting reading for the month of February up till the attack.

Paul

[retread]

Pretty. Much like western Pennsylvania, blue ridge area of Virginia, or eastern Tennessee. I assume the low-lying areas are prone to fog.
There must of been a massive build-up of men and material prior to the offensive. What methods did the Germans adopt to keep all that from prying eyes? A glaring example of the failure of airborne (or otherwise) gleaned intelligence and perhaps general readiness on the part of the French.

[totoroman]

wow! those photographs were beautiful and scary at the same time! to think that artillery shells that detonated nearly 100 years ago still leave the landscape so scarred and warped after all this time. makes me so very glad I wasn't there!