Captain Albert Ball VC

dave1961 · 6 December 2001, 11:35 AM

Some time ago, I was given the above mentioned book (Captain

Albert Ball VC by R.H. Kiernan 1st Edition printed 1933) along with the book came a valve from a Roland, reportedly shot down by Ball (kill 6 2 Jul 1916 1730 11 Nieuport (A134) Roland C.II (DES) Mercatel-Arras Road ). there is some, but very light documentation regarding this saying it was recovered in April 1917, and the value does have the details engraved/stamped on the top. I know it's common for foot sloggers to claim war trophies and I can understand how that alone would have come to be, but the fact the book seems to bear a stronger covenant to the valve sets alarm bells ring.

Has anyone come across the faking of such items to make them more desirable, ie the book is rare anyway, and on this very site, a links lead to the sale of one for $170 dollars, but along with the valve I'm sure a collector would pay far more. please understand I'm not interested in the money value, just trying to alay my fears to it being faked.

Basically I have my doubts not that it took months to recover the valve, nor that I have yet to confirm it came from a Roland CII what worries me is that the Valve seems to fit the book, and how did a rare book and a actual piece of wreckage get put together, Other than by a collector, or a faker for profit.

Any one come across or seen reports of faking these sort of items for profit, some one has gone to a lot of trouble to stamp the valve with the details, have they just done this purely for gain.

thanks in advance for your input, your views and comment would be welcomed.

regards

dave1961

Vin · 10 December 2001, 09:45 PM

Dave1961

When I picked up my version for $10.00 last year at a pokey little second hand bookstore, it was not accompanied by a Roland valve or any other relic. If it had been, maybe they would have asked for $130.00 but I wouldn't have paid it. You do well to be sceptical. I cannot really assist you but I am interested in what you think of the book.

Vin

dave1961 · 11 December 2001, 01:55 AM

Thanks Vin

Yes I am sceptical, it just all seems to cut and dry, the valve details given are just enough to convince you, but not enough if you get my drift. it's almost as if the valve has been taylor made for the book. (although I admit a collector, could have bought the book and valve together.

Unfortunately I have not had time to read the book fully only parts, so I would hate to comment at this point. (

To many commitments and other things to do)

as for the books value, well check the web, the only link you will get will give you the price. mind you thats for the 1933 first edition. I do believe there have been a couple of print runs on the book.

Vin · 12 December 2001, 10:06 PM

Dave1961

What an intriguing name! I have not looked at it for a while now. Detailed but without much acknowledgment of sources. Others point to Ball’s violin playing and living in a tent away from the other members of the squadron and conclude that Ball was some kind of an eccentric, verging on wierdo. Kiernan's version is that he played the violin because he like to and pitched a tent near the runway so as to be able to get into the air quickly when alerted to the presence of enemy aircraft. That calm approach is what I like about it. By the way, do you think that non-WW!-aviation posts should be counted towards a contributor’s score ?

Vin

dave1961 · 13 December 2001, 08:27 PM

Vin

dave1961 · 13 December 2001, 08:36 PM

??? Whoops Sorry, not trying to boost me score honest. Dave1961 is my hotmail account name, hence the handle. Maybe I will take some time out and read it fully this Christmas.

I think he was just a normal head strong Youngman keen to serve his country.

Dave

CaptainLewis · 19 December 2001, 01:40 PM

About Ball: if one "story" above any other sickened me, it was the account that Ball would light a flare and whirl around it like a Dervish while fiddling... yeah... right-oh! You might want to also look up McCudden's book, for he mentions Ball and the violin... You can get a first hand account of Ball from

HORSES DON'T FLY (Frederick Libby, Arcade Publishing 2000; there was also a website by Libby's granddaughter Sally Ann Marsh, Horsesdontfly.com, but I think it's been since vacated). Ball was a young, decent, idealistic type, someone that I would have been proud to have known...
About the valve: this reminds me of a story of a Professor of Anthropology that I once had, Edmund Carpenter. He was always uncovering fakes and frauds in the world of Native American art. Once, an art dealer or friend asked, "Ted, what's your secret?" As in, did he use some type of chemical testing or otherwise to deduce an object's authenticity? Professor Carpenter just answered: "I use the telephone." Which is to say, whenever some piece or artifact came his way for purchase, something that was unique and in fine condition, the professor would contact dealers to see if an identical piece had recently been offered to them. He was thus able to trace the "history" of many a fake. In short, if it's too good to be true, it probably is...

MikeW · 6 September 2002, 11:35 AM

Earlier this year, Charles Gosse was offered a presentation mounted photograph, set of medals, and uniforms purported to belong to an RNAS airship captain.

When we checked up, we found that the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton owns the same items which were donated to the museum by the pilot's widow.

So yes, unscrupulous people are prepared to fake WW1 memorabilia and relics in order to boost the value.

I must admit, I have no idea how you could validate the authenticity of your valve. I suppose the first step is to confirm if it came from the right type of engine.

Mike