Where did Zeppelin combats take place?

stephen · 20 April 2007, 01:12 PM

Every engagement that I've ever heard of between an Allied fixed wing aircraft and a Zeppelin occurred over Allied lines... usually very deep in Allied lines.

Did any such engagements ever occur over German lines to anyone's knowledge? Thanks.

adrian roberts · 20 April 2007, 05:59 PM

LZ37 was shot down (or rather, bombed) near Ghent in German-held territory by Flt Sub Lt Rex Warneford, RNAS, 7th June 1915.

Warneford had to land due to a ruptured fuel line due to the Zeppelin exploding; he repaired it at dawn (the action was at night), took off and flew back to his own lines.

He was awarded a Victoria Cross but was KIFA ten days after the action

Adrian

Reinout · 21 April 2007, 03:15 AM

Hi Stephen,

There´s quite some detail concerning this VC action in -unsurprisingly- a book dealing with the Air VC´s of WWI, titled -again unsurprisingly- "VCs of the First World War - The Air VCs" by Peter G. Cooksley.

Kind regards,

Reinout

TomVrille · 21 April 2007, 10:16 AM

A number of engagements, many inconclusive, took place over water, including the Baltic, North Sea, and English Channel.

Graeme · 21 April 2007, 02:33 PM

There were also a few conclusive engagements:

14-May-17, 05:20 NNW Texel Island, Flt Sub-Lt R Leckie + Flt Lt C J Galpin + CPO V F Whatling + A/M J R Laycock, RNAS Great Yarmouth, Curtiss H12 8666, Zeppelin L22

14-Jun-17, 08:40 Off Vlieland, Flt Sub-Lt B D Hobbs + Sub-Lt R F L Dickey + AM2 H M Davis + AM/1 A W Goody, RNAS Felixstowe, Curtiss H12 8677, Zeppelin L43

21-Aug-17, Off Lodbjerg, Flt Sub-Lt B A Smart, HMS Yarmouth, Pup N6430, Zeppelin L23

05-Aug-18, 22:20 Off Cromer, Maj E Cadbury + Capt R Leckie, Great Yarmouth, DH4 A8032, Zeppelin L70 shared with Lt R E Keys + A/M A T Harman, Great Yarmouth, DH4 A8039

11-Aug-18, 09:41 Heligoland Bight, Lt S D Culley, HMS Redoubt, Camel N6812, Zeppelin L53

Graeme

adrian roberts · 21 April 2007, 06:02 PM

Leckie was involved in two Zeppelin destructions, L22 and L70. This was Robert Leckie, later Air Vice Marshal.

Also one account of L62's loss is that it was shot down North of Helgoland by Felixstowe F2A N4291, 10th May 1918, Capt TC Pattinson and Capt AH Munday (+ presumably a couple of AMs). Another source says simply that it crashed.

Graeme · 22 April 2007, 03:08 AM

Leckie's mentioned twice in my listing - 14 May 1917 and 5 August 1918.

He got the Distinguished Service Cross, Gazetted 22 June 1917; there was no citation but the award was no doubt prompted by his destruction of L22.

He also received the Distinguished Flying Cross, Gazetted 21 September 1918:

Capt. (T./Maj.) Egbert Cadbury, D.S.C. (Pilot).
Lieut. (T./Capt.) Robert Leckie, D.S.O., D.S.C. (Observer).
Lieut. Ralph Edmund Keys (Pilot) (Sea Patrol).

These officers attacked and destroyed a large enemy airship which recently attempted a raid on the North-East Coast, and also succeeded in damaging a second airship. The services rendered on this occasion were of the greatest value, and the personal risk was very considerable for aeroplanes a long way out from land.

Harman (Keys' observer) received the Distinguished Flying Medal, also Gazetted 21 September 1918:

210675 Pte./2 (Gunlayer) Arthur Tom Harman (Edmonton, N.).

For gallantry in the air in assisting in the destruction of an enemy airship which recently attempted a raid on the North-East Coast of England. One airship was completely destroyed and another was damaged.

As for L62, I believe Dr Douglas Robinson, in his epic work "Zeppelin in Combat", discounted the idea of Pattinson et al being responsible for its destruction since the airship was some 10,000 feet or more above the flying boat's ceiling. I'll see if I can find anything else on this one.

Graeme

stephen · 22 April 2007, 06:17 AM

Many thanks, guys. That's helpful. Let me clarify a bit... some friends are putting together a sim scenario (early 1917) involving a zepp, but they didn't know what the odds were of it taking place over German or Allied held land (or water).

My response was that the vast majority of airplane vs. zeppelin engagements that I knew of took place over Allied held terrain. Any other info to further that response is really helpful. Eventually, for the sim, they'll need to break it down to percentages.

Graeme · 22 April 2007, 06:54 AM

Stephen

Five airships were destroyed in the air over the UK - SL11, L32, L31, L34 and L48 and I've listed the four that were destroyed above German waters (L22, L23, L43 and L53) and the one above the North Sea off the English coast (L70). So, six over Allied territory and four over German territory.

Graeme

stephen · 22 April 2007, 01:43 PM

Very helpful! Thanks!