A.W brought down in Macedonia?

jager1 · 14 May 2007, 03:31 AM

I'm trying to find out for a friend what unit or better pilot brought down an A.W of 17 Squadron in Macedonia on 3/4/18. He has a combat report that an SE5a pilot claims it was shot down by one of two fighters that attacked the A.W. One of the crewmembers who was killed was a 2/Lt St.J.S Backhouse

I can't find any mention of in Trevor Henshaw's book or Jasta chronology so I'm guessing the fighters were perhaps from FA30 or such unit?

Jager1

Soderbaum · 14 May 2007, 12:35 PM

Hi

I have that the AW was brought down in the Struma valley by Hptm Ivan Milanov from The Bulgarian Air Force, dont knew for certain his unit.....

Do you knew if Backhouse was pilot or observer..?

Gunnar

Varese2002 · 14 May 2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soderbaum

Hi

I have that the AW was brought down in the Struma valley by Hptm Ivan Milanov from The Bulgarian Air Force, dont knew for certain his unit.....

Do you knew if Backhouse was pilot or observer..?

Gunnar

Information I got from YavorD covers the story of another event on the Bulgarian front with an Armstrong Whitworth.

Quote:

Roland D.II fighters flown by pilots Uzunov and Balan intercepted 6 british airplanes (R.A.F. B.E.2c and Armstrong Whitworth F.K.3). Armstrong Whitworth 6219 flown by Captain O'Dwyer, CO 17th Squadron, was forced down and captured almost intact on 8 July 1917 and was flown later by pilots of 1st airplane section in 42 missions.

Kees

Graeme · 14 May 2007, 03:58 PM

Gunnar

I believe the crew of the FK3 was Lieutenant George Still (pilot) and Second Lieutenant St J S Backhouse (observer); I don't have a serial number for their aeroplane. According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, both were buried in Sofia War Cemetery.

Graeme

jager1 · 14 May 2007, 11:40 PM

Thanks all for your replies, my friend will be really pleased.
Certainly that he was shot down by a Bulgarian pilot explains why all my searches failed.

As Graeme sais He was an Observer - St.John Salmon Backhouse, 10th E. Lancs.,

att. RFC, well I presumed the att. RFC confirms this.

I'll ask if he has the aircraft serial number

Jager1

YavorD · 18 May 2007, 04:55 AM

There are couple of photographs possibly related with the event discussed above.

See third post with 7 photographs. First 5 show A.W. F.K.3 6219. Sixth photograph shows an aircraft coded B-333?. Both crewmembers perished.
http://airgroup2000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223090
Bulgarian sources say British reconnaissance plane was shot down on 3 April 1918 by Captain Ivan Milanov. Both crewmembers killed. Observer had old hand injury.
Another version concerning captured A.W. F.K.3 6219 from 8 July 1917. Pilot was South African Maurice McMoore (not sure for spelling because of a cyrillic source), shown on second photo.
Captain O'Dwyer was an S.E.5 pilot forced to land his damaged plane on a meadow and captured on 8 July 1917.

Regards,
Yavor

jager1 · 18 May 2007, 11:23 AM

Thanks for this info Yavor - I've sent the link to my friend,who will be delighted I'm sure. Hopefully he can confirm the serial for Backhouse's aircraft.

Do you think the last photo is the same aircraft? - I can see two lewis guns on the ground.. maybe a FE2b or such like?

Jager1

YavorD · 18 May 2007, 11:47 AM

Yes, two guns and several magazines. On the left upper part of the photo a tailplane structure can be seen (at least it looks as rudder for me). This part does not match with F.E.2b drawings. No indication is it the same aircraft or not. May be not, but a am not sure about this?

Another error was found in one of my sources. Colleagues from the Bulgarian forum provided explanation based upon an old book written by one of the participants: Vladimir Balan, a fighter pilot during WWI. This book was published in 1939 and is not easily accessible. There should be a copy in Bulgarian National Library, but I do not have enough time to check just now.

Regards,
Yavor

Graeme · 18 May 2007, 02:27 PM

Aeroplanes with the serial B3330 to B3339 were all Armstrong Whitworth FK8s, from the batch B3301 to B3400. I think the machine in the photograph is actually FK8 B3357 which was lost on 17 July 1918 when flown by Capt Samuel Richard Penrose-Welstead DFC and Lt Henry Glaze Hall, both being killed.

The Sky Their Battlefield gives this as being the result of anti-aircraft fire.

I don't believe O'Dwyer was an SE5 pilot; it was a new type and by July 1917 only No 56 and No 60 Squadrons were equipped with the SE5/SE5a. The Sky Their Battlefield shows O'Dwyer as the pilot of B6219 on 8 July 1917.

I have no reference to anyone with the name "McMoore" but Lieutenant A Leslie-Moore served in No 17 Squadron and was taken prisoner on 18 June 1917 whilst flying a BE2e.

Graeme

YavorD · 18 May 2007, 04:02 PM

Thank you very much, Graeme!

May be there is another example when recollections not supported by background research are misleading.

Would you be so kind to check two more entries in the same general area?
Bulgarian DFW C.V shot down by S.E.5 on 20 June 1918. Crew of two killed. Who claims this victory?
British reconnaissance two-seater (reported B.E.2) shot down by Captain Milanov in Roland D.III on 31 July 1918.

Regards,
Yavor

P.S. I am expecting "The Sky Their Battlefield" within a month or so.