Lafayette's "unfading glory"

[totoroman]

so when I was younger I read about how "the one unit from WWI whose glory never dimmed was the legendary Lafayette Escadrille"... and I got the impression that this was the "best of the best"... well, when I go back and learn about what they actually accomplished, they're far from the most remarkable fighter squadron in WWI aviation. heck, there are bomber and recon flights that did things that were more remarkable and had a larger impact on the war (Maurice Happe of Escadrille MF29 being a good example).

compared to the accomplishments and statistics that could be attributed to the top-scoring RFC, Jastas, and other Escadrilles it just doesn't seem THAT awesome.

I admit, I read this in a comic book... but doesn't it seem a bit misleading to have this in stories for kids? is it just encouraging people to be patriotic? it seems like it was a great unit to be a part of... but I can't help but wonder WHY they saw fit to hype up that squadron so much. even in the movie Flyboys they focus on this squadron... what? focusing on a dedicated USAS squadron that "just arrived" at the front later in the war wasn't good enough?

maybe it's the same reason I get bored watching "the top ten fighters of all time"... I don't even bother watching because I already know that most of them are going to be American fighters, and that the P51D Mustang will always be at the top of the list.

yeah, this could be flame-bait, I guess... I just remember being astonished at the relatively small number of victories that could be attributed to this squadron and wondering why (apart from good old fashioned propaganda value intrinsic to the idea of the squad in the first place) this squadron merits so much attention and why so many people pretended to be a part of it...

[Taz]

totoroman- The Lafayette Escadrille's 38 pilots were the forefront of a huge effort to get the Americans into the war and their exploits were widely publicized in the USA. Raoul Lufbery is the only pure ace they produced, although other L.E. pilots did go on to become aces flying with the Americans. Bert Hall would likely have become an ace if the blue bloods had not chased him from the outfit.

A lot of the scoring in WW-I depended on where you were stationed and who opposed you, so even one escadrille of the mighty Storks only scored 30 or so victories during the whole war (Spa 73). if you were assigned to a quiet sector or your commander was not very aggressive, victories were difficult to obtain.

There was a lot of confusion between the 38 pilots of the L.E. and the 250+ pilots of the Lafayette Flying Corps, which included Americans who flew with any French unit in WW-I. Hard to say if this was misclaiming or misquoting, most likely the latter. I still get requests for information on L.E. pilots who never flew in Escadrille 124.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

Yes, it was largely the Lafayette's volunteerism, the propaganda aspect, and the sacrifice they made that made them national heroes - not the number of airplanes they shot down. Don't forget that many of these guys came from very wealthy families, volunteered when the USA wasn't even at war, and gave their lives for France. The fact that many of them did come from blueblooded "old money" families also played a big part in keeping their memory and their glory alive long after the war. Norman Prince's father spent loads of money to glorify his dead son's name - at the expense of William Thaw and others - and eventually had his body disinterred from French soil and reburied in a vault in the National Cathedral in D.C.

Unfortunately, some of the guys who flew with the Lafayette Flying Corps did claim, or did nothing to refute the mistaken impression, that they had flown in the Lafayette Escadrille N124. Even more galling was that a lot of guys that never got to France claimed it too! In 1932 the press carried the story of a so-called amnesiac's claim that he was Andrew Courtney Campbell, who really didn't die on 1 October 1917 but was alive after all those years. Turns out he was really George Reynolds, a Navy deserter from WWI. Even the German pilot who shot Campbell down refuted this guy's claim!

Greg

[StephenLawson]

Sadly, Taz & Greg are absolutely correct. Here is a question for you. By the time the Lafayette Escadrille began its existance officially, how man Frenchmen had given their lives at war?

[totoroman]

hey, if by "unfading glory" they meant the courage and sacrifice these men gave of themselves for the benefit of others then I'd absolutely agree.

and opportunities are far from equal. I think I was just reading about a French pilot the other day who had a relatively small "27 combats" and yet was credited with 12 victories. this sounds like a guy who had a lot more skill then opportunties. and to top it off, after flying 272 hours he was posted away from active flying duties in the middle of the war.

I think part of me would like a little more attention to be paid to other American volunteers... like the guys that flew with the RFC. they weren't any less courageous, and were making the same sort of sacrifices that the Lafayette Escadrille volunteers were making... but I guess they just didn't have the same sort of propaganda value.

in that vein, lol, Frederick Libby's book "Horses Don't Fly" is a good read.

[Barrett]

If you were going to compile a list of The Most Effective US Air Units From Then Til Now, you would not include the three most famous:

N.124
The Black Sheep
The Tuskegees

Of those, arguably the one that inflicted the most damage on the enemy was the Black Sheeps (!) but frankly, USMC claims were nearly always way far off the mark because there was no provision for independent review, as in the AAF. (I hasten to add that a lot of other outfits overclaimed considerably.)

The 332nd FG has claimed approximately forever that it had a perfect record on bomber escort, which was demonstrably absurd. However, the Red Tails had an EXCELLENT record in that regard. They're mainly victims of their admirers' zealousness and their own reluctance to correct the errors.

What were the most effective US air units?

Well, I'll open nominations with:

27th Aero Squadron, WW I
USN Bombing Squadron 6, WW II
USN Fighting Squadron 15, WW II
509th Composite Group, WW II (!!!!!)
4th FIW, Korean War
8th TFW, Vietnam.

[rainbase]

I'll put in my two cents on this one.

It's true, of course, that reputation given to the Lafayette pilots seems almost disproportionate to their actual accomplishments in. This isn't a criticism; all things equal, they performed their assigned duties as well as other French units in that time and place.

When he American press began reporting on the exploits of these guys it was immediately a hit back in the states with the readers. It sold newspapers and business being business, well, you can see where this led. If you recall, James Hall was sent to France to do a series of articles for... um... Atlantic Monthly(?) about the American pilots. The stories never got submitted, of course, for Hall decided to join the corps instead.

Now, that said, I'll point out that many stories that once sold newspapers have faded from our collective consciousness. I think the reason the Lafayette Escadrille story has persevered over the years has much to do with the massive number of books those guys wrote. Think about. I don't believe any squadron of any nation produced as many published first hand accounts. I know that early on when I was a youngster and trying to read every thing I could, I was exposed to Jim Hall, Parsons, and Jim McConnell. In addition there are books written by Bert Hall, Edmond Genet (his letters), Theinualt, and others.

I know there are more. With a little work I bet I could easily find a dozen published books penned by Lafayette fliers. Later, when the historians began writing about Great War aviation, those original accounts became a great resource which in turn caused so many books to be written ABOUT the unit.

At least that's what I think.

[stephen]

I think we're all dancing on a pinhead here and avoiding the blunt truth... the LE was a propaganda machine. War is an industry... nothing more. The industry fails when people are unwilling to sacrifice their children to the state's ambitions, and, of course, the financial health of their cronies. This is not profitable. So, wars must be "sold" like any other cheap product that fails to deliver what it promises. Full scale propaganda campaigns, flag waiving, parades, medals... the stupid masses must gleefully cheer as their children march off to die or the whole scheme fails.

The LE was the flagship of this war's propaganda machine. If the unit had never scored a single victory it didn't make a bit of difference, they'd have been celebrated just the same.

I love WWI aviation as much as the next guy, but that is the answer to your question. The LE is celebrated beyond its achievements because it was an integral part of the state's propaganda. It continues to be celebrated today for the same reason.

[Taz]

stephen- I think you may have drifted a bit too much to the left side for me. Some things are worth a fight. Pick your fights well, but WW-I and WW-II were not bad fights in which to participate.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Taz
Terry phillips

[stephen]

I'm neither left, center nor right. Those who believe in human freedom and liberty don't really fit into today's linear, crayon-drawn political paradigm, and if I had a political affiliation with any of those positions I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed of myself to admit it publicly.

I'm simply observing the fact that Dwight Eisenhower, Smedley Butler and Halliburton so clearly pointed out - that war is an industry.

WWI and WWII were neither necessary nor good fights. The public was deliberately baited into both, as were our enemies. War is the health of the state, and they were simply good business.

I am not opposed to fighting a good fight, but the last time we did had one we used muskets and didn't need a government to tell us what to do.