95th Aero on 25 July 1918

[rammjaeger]

I did just read in J. Guttman´s “Spad XII/XIII Aces of World War I. He reports the following victories for 95th Aero on 25 July 1918 in this book on page 71:

(1) James Knowles - Fokker D.VII – near Bouvardes [wrong spelling, in fact Beuvardes]
(2) James Knowles, Sumner Sewall, C. S. Gill, W. H. Heinrichs and G. W. Puryear
– Rumpler – near Villeneve-sur-Fére [wrong spelling, in fact Villeneuve...]

(3) Walter Avery – Fokker D.VII (Menckhoff)

That is a bit confusing for me because a 1st Pursuit Group History in the Internet reports the following:
(1) Lieutenants Gill, Puryear, Heinrichs and Sewall destroyed 1 Fokker near Oulchy [I assume this means Oulchy-le-Chât]
(2) Avery downed 1 Fokker inside own lines and had to land with damaged airplane himself
(3) 1st Lt. Knowles destroyed 1 Fokker near Château-Thierry

Also Charles Woolley reports 95th Aero had 3 confirmed victories that day but he quotates a report by Jim [! – and not James] Knowles against a Fokker D.VII and Avery´s Fokker in the woods north of Château-Thierry.

So we have two unclear victories concerning the who, where, when and what:

The claim of the five pilots incl. one “Knowles” against a Rumpler near Villeneuve-sur-Fére versus claim of the same against a Fokker near Oulchy-le-Chât (ca 7+ km west north west of Villeneuve ...)

The claim of James Knowles against a Fokker D.VII near Beuvardes versus a claim of a 1st Lt. Knowles (Jim Knowles?) against a Fokker near Château-Thierry (ca 10 km south south west of Beuvardes).

I did not see any times given for these victories which could help to clarify the matter.

Does anybody have correct US-American data incl. times for the victory claims/confirmations?
Or is anybody able to correct the information given above?

[Gregvan]

Hallo Rammjaeger,

I'm sorry about your confusion about these American victory claims. First of all, 1st Lt. James Knowles, Jr, and "Jim" Knowles are one and the same person. Jim is simply a common nickname for James.

I make no claim to be an expert in the area of American victory claims. Just as claims in the Nachrichtenblatt may differ from those in the German Armee Weekly reports, and these may differ from those in the Jasta records when they exist, there are similar discrepancies in American combat claims. Just as German Jasta pilots might call any British single-seater a "Sopwith" or a French aircraft as a "Spad two-seater" when it was actually a Breguet or a Salmson, American airmen were also poor at aircraft identification.

Having said that, I turn to the very excellent compilation of "United States Credits for the Destruction of Enemy Aircraft in Air-to-Air Combat World War I" by the forum's own Frank J. Olynyk (I hope he will join in on this thread soon). Frank's work is very carefully compiled from official primary sources in the Gorrell Reports. I will quote his reports exactly, spelling and all:

On 25/7/18 Frank notes that at 1835 hrs, 1st Lt. James Knowles, Jr., was credited with a Fokker that crashed from 1400 meters altitude at Beuvardes. This was confirmed by Resume 33.766 du 25 Juillet: FWB2 Operations Report: N4.427.

Also on 25/7/18 at 1845 hrs, 1st Lt Walter L. Avery shot down a Fokker which crashed from 1000 m altitude, north of Chateau-Thierry. This was confirmed by: Conf: C2.476; Ops Report: N4.431.

Also on 25/7/18 1st Lt. James A. Healey and 2nd Lt. Joseph Christopher Raible, Jr., of the 147th Aero Squadron, were credited with an "aircraft" downed at the Foret de Fere. No time of day is given.

Now, on the next day, 26/7/1918, at 0700 hrs, 1st Lts. Clarence S. Gill, Waldo H. Heinrichs, James Knowles, Jr., George W. Puryear and Sumner Sewall, were all credited with a Rumpler forced to land from 800 meters at Villeneuve-sur-Fere. I cannot account for the difference in dates between this and your sources. I'll do some more work.

Greg

[Gregvan]

Hello Again,

There seems to be more confusion/discrepancies concerning the date of the "Rumpler" victory by the group of 95th Aero Sqn pilots. In "Over the Front", the book of American and French aces' claims (from Grub Street) by Franks and Bailey, the entry for Sumner Sewall lists a Rumpler two-seater down on 25 July 1918, shared with Lts Heinrichs, Gill, Knowles, and G.W. Puryear. This is of course repeated in the listing for James Knowles, Jr.

However, based on Frank Olynyk's work cited above and by reading Charles Woolley's big book "First to the Front" from Schiffer (do you have that book?), I firmly believe the Rumpler was actually shot down on the 26th.

In Woolley's book, he quotes from the Gorrell History for the 25th: "Action started on the 25th when three (sic) planes were officially brought down and Lt. Vann was killed in action. 17 combats were reported from one patrol of 19 planes. Lt. McLanahan had 2 combats; Lt. Curtis had one; Lt. Knowles had one which resulted in an official confirmation; Lt. Sewall had one; Lts. Gill, Buckley. Russell, Montague each had one; and Lieut. Avery had one in which he brought down the famous German 'Ace' Captain Menckhoff; Lt. Heinrichs had three.

"The story by Lieut. Avery is very short: "Brought down one Fokker bi-plane in the woods north of Chateau-Thierry: Pilot Capt. Menckhoff.'

"This was Lieut. Avery's first fight and after it the Boche was captured and he was reported to have asked who this pilot was that had maneuvered and shot so well. When told that it was a new pilot and that this was his first combat, he asked to meet him. Lieut. Avery did land and saw the pilot go by in an automobile."

1st Lt James Knowles, Jr., wrote this years later: "A week later, in the afternoon of July 25th, McLanahan, Curtis, Sewall, Puryear, Vann and I went on a patrol and what a patrol it was. Vann was killed, missing by only ten feet the tail of my machine when he fell, thereby adding about 30 years to my life in a few seconds. Walt Avery, and it was his first flight over the lines and the first time he ever flew a Spad, shot down a Capt. Menckhoff who had 42 official victories to his credit and rows of medals that must have made him walk lopsided when he wore them all, and who was the maddest man in the world when he found out who had knocked him off."

"I got my first official by rare presence of mind which consisted of keeping my guns wide open all the time in the dogfight that followed Vann's death. One unlucky Jerry (German) just happened to wander in front of me and got the full benefit."

So, judging from these diary entries etc, it would seem that only two official victories went to the 95th on the 25th, one "Fokker" by Knowles and Menckhoff's Fokker by Avery.

Knowles also wrote that, on his way home on the 25th, Puryear was attacked by a Sopwith Camel bearing British insignia. Puryear managed to outmaneuver the Camel and force it to land. He was later informed by the British Wing at Touquin that they had no such Camel, and the speculation was that it had been a captured machine flown by a German. Who knows?....

Anyway, on the next day, 26 July 1918, , Heinrichs' diary notes: "Went up 6:30. Very hazy. Only 3 of my patrol met me. I led ten Spads out. Saw bi-place Rumpler and shot him down. Landed OK near Villeneuve-sur-Fere with observer apparently dead, just in their lines. Saw pilot jump out & shot at him; fell wounded. Staggered on. Puryear landed (the fool) & cracked up his Spad, jumped out to capture his man and is probably dead or a prisoner by now. Archies & machine guns chased me off & I was last to leave."


James Knowles wrote that his entry for July 26th in his Carnet d'Emploi du Temps, issued by the French to all student pilots, read: "Patrol-Oulchey le Chateau - Puryear prisoner - One Rumpler driven down - time 75 minutes - altitude 800 meters." He goes on to write that HE was leading the patrol of Charles Gravatt, "Peter" Puryear, Waldo Heinrichs, Sumner Sewall and Ted Curtis. They got separated, and then he saw below him Curtis, Sewall, Heinrichs and Puryear all "breaking their necks" to get in their shots at one poor Rumpler, and getting in each other's way. Knowles joined in the attack and they then took turns in shooting at the Rumpler. After about ten minutes the inexperienced Americans succeeded in forcing the Rumpler down. He believed that Heinrichs had shot the observer, then the Rumpler landed at a field behind a small farmhouse which had a fairly high wall around the barnyard. As soon as the pilot landed he hopped out and ran, and Heinrichs shot at him - Knowles wrote that they later found out that the pilot was "playing possum" (pretending to be dead) and had not been hit. This was in the middle of the American ground troops' advance, and the 95th pilots weren't sure if the Rumpler had landed behind Allied lines or not. Puryear apparently felt that it had, for he landed nearby, hit a small ditch and broke his propeller. Suddenly German soldiers ran out from the farmhouse and took him prisoner (Knowles was telling this story years later, after he had heard Puryear's story upon his return from captivity). The German troops thought Puryear was the one who had shot at the German pilot and the ground and told Puryear they were going to shoot him, but of course they did not.

So there you have it. Knowles and Avery each were credited with one Fokker on the 25th, for the loss of Lt. Vann killed in action. Knowles, Heinrichs, Curtis, Puryear and Gill all received credit for the Rumpler on the 26th, and Puryear landed to be taken POW.

Greg

[Gregvan]

Hallo Rammjaeger!

Walter Avery's diary (along with that of fellow 95th pilot Lansing C. Holden) was published in "Over the Front" Volume 1, No. 3. Have you seen that?

I should point out that Avery had been flying Nieuport 27s in French Escadrille N.461, one of the units flying in the defense of Paris, for a few weeks before transferring to the 95th. So he was an experienced pilot, though he hadn't had any combats before 25 July 1918. His diary notes he flew a 200 hp Spad on the 21st of July, and was assigned his 220 hp Spad XIII #4512 on the 23rd. He made his first patrol on the 24th.

Walter Avery's own diary entry for 25 July 1918 reads: "Thursday. 1st Fight, 1st Boche. Left with the 5:45 PM patrol. After patrolling along the lines north of Chateau Thierry for about an hour at 1500 meters, our formation of 8 airplanes met about an equal number of Fokker biplanes, type D VII. Both formations broke and a general fight started. I dove on one Boche and another dove on me. I turned and got under the 2nd Boche's tail and shot. Both guns jammed. While clearing the jams he got on my tail and put two bullets in my left wing; one in my tail and a 4th bullet cut my water pipe and nicked the frame of my windshield. I lost altitude while clearing the jams amd he got directly above me, and behind. I did a retournment and with the resulting speed was able to stand vertically on my tail and gave him a good burst. He started to lose altitude and went down in a tight spiral. I followed him, shooting, and saw him crash in a woods northeast of Chateau Thierry. I then flew south of the Marne and landed in the edge of Chateau Thierry, as all of the rest of both patrols had disappeared. Lt. Col. Graham, of the Quartermaster Corps at Chateau T., together with Drape Dougherty of Columbus, Ohio, drove me out to see the Boche plane in their car. We met the Boche pilot Capt. Meinkopf (sic), in the charge of some French officers who had captured him. I talked with him. He would talk only in French. He said he was not wounded, but was quite cut and bruised from the fall. The trees were very thick where he landed which broke his fall. The plane was a complete wreck. There were several bullets in his plane, one probably being the one that brought him down. I took the compass and cut the large letter M from the side and Lt. Dougherty drove me back to camp as it was too dark then to fly. The French officers say he is a noted German ace, with forty-four victories. He was a fine looking fellow with the blue cross 'Pour Merite' (sic) around his neck (highest German decoration).

His entry for the next day,the 26th,states that he returned to the site and said that "Col. Graham's men had dismounted everything and I kept the telescope sight, altimeter and name plate." He also said that the German pilot had claimed to have shot down an American "before I got him. Vann of our squadron has not returned and it is feared he was shot down yesterday in the fight." He then goes on to recount how men of his squadron had brought down a two-seater Rumpler that day, and how Puryear had foolishly landed beside it to be taken prisoner.

Rammjaeger, the article in OtF also has a letter from Avery to his parents describing his fight with Meckhoff, and an article from the London Daily Mail about the same incident. I'll happily send those to you if you want them. Avery told the reporter from the "Daily Mail" : "A few minutes later I saw Menckoff and I must say he gives one the impression of being a 'gentleman'. On his collar he wears the blue star 'Pour le Merite', which only six subaltern officers in the German army have won (sic). Thinking that he had been brought down by a Frenchman, he asked the name of his opponent. 'I would like to know who this pilot is,' he said. 'He is a good fighter and it might gratify him to know my name.' He was very surprised to hear that his conqueror was an American flying a French Spad."

Norman S. Archibald was another 95th pilot who wrote a book called "Heaven High and Hell Deep", in which he describes the Menckhoff fight. I can send that to you as well.

Greg VanWyngarden

[rammjaeger]

Thanky you very much, Greg!

You must have needed a lot of time to compile these information!

I hoped to find out which of the US-claims had really to do with the 95th Aero vs. Jasta 72s engagement. I had execerpts from Charles Woolleys books and articles and have also a copy of the article with Avery´s diary and some letters home (starting with 25th July).
My problem was that Knowles was reported to have had two victories that day but he himself reported he got his first in the evening engagement. Therefore I assumed there would be two persons - James and Jim (like Johannes and Hannes .
If the Rumpler was downed the next day then this problem is solved.

Nevertheless I am still wondering about the location Beuvardes for Knowles victory - the location of 147 Aero´s victory would fit a lot better.
As well I wonder nobody reported the downing of the French balloon by Jasta 72s near Verdilly 1840 hrs in all the reports I have seen!

I have read ca 15 reports (military and paper reports) about the M-fight - Avery best. The others often hmm let´s say entertaining. I believe I do not know Archibalds report but would like to read it. TIA.

VBR
Hannes

Add-on: And a third thing makes me wonder: where and when came Grover Vann down? Was he / his machine ever found and identified? He was still missing on 27 July (according to Avery) and 24 August (according to a loss list).
Amazing too: Avery´s damaged aircraft was fixed with the help of a part of another downed (Avery thought by Flak) SPAD which did lay on the ground nearby.

[PFFF]

What unit was of the Rumpler brought down?
Website concering 1st Pursuit Group at 1st Pursuit Group Records - 1918 - May thru July
Note Lt Vann was KIA-apparently repratired to USA As not listed in ABMC

[rammjaeger]

Thanks, but I know the website.

[jeannemappleg8]

Hello Gentelmen! I'm new to this and find all these discussions very interesting! I am Walter Avery's granddaughter and was there when my mother gave the M to Menchkoff's son- Gerhard. I'm headed to the family home where I've been archiving 'kodaks', correspondence and newspaper clippings. Would anything in particular be of interest to you?