Kagohl III victory on 7th july 1917

[Regulus]

Hi,

One of the more funny stories on Feldflieger Abteilung 19 concerns pilot Offizierstellvertreter Klimke and
observer Oberleutnant Leon.

In the night of the 6th on the 7th of may 1917 they undertook on their own initiative a bombing raid on London. They succeeded and dropped 5 bombs of 12,5 kilo’s between Hackney and Holloway.

However this was not really appreciated by the German highcommand, as they were preparing an attack on London with Kagohl III, and they found that the British had been alerted this way and would be more on their defences. Klimke and Leon were finally transferred to Kagohl III and flying the Gotha IV had several possibilities of bombing Britain.

Now to the serious part :

On the 7th of july 1917 during the second massive daylight raid on London this team, and their machinegunner Vizefeldwebel Kientrup shot down a British Sopwith that was defending the capital.

There were several losses on Allied side that day. 2nd Lt JER Young of 37 Sqdn went up from Rochford with a Sopwith two seater and got killed, while his observer Air Mechanic CC Taylor was wounded.

2nd Lt. WG salmon flying a Sopwith scout had been flying from Dartford for 63 Training Sqdn and was killed . So it was one of both planes. The other British loss was another type of plane.

Does anyone know which of both possibilities is the victory of Kientrup ?

VBR from Regulus

[MikeW]

Salmon flying a Sopwith Pup received a fatal head wound and he crashed near Joyce Green aerodrome - no other aircraft saw the combat. It was established that he had fired 55 rounds from his own gun.

Young and Taylor in a Sopwith 1.5 strutter were thought to have been brought down by British anti-aircraft fire. The observer, Taylor, was picked up alive, but died shortly afterwards. Young's body was never recovered. Other 37 squadron pilots complained about the a-a fire that day.

I'd say it was Salmon.

Mike

[Frank_Olynyk]

Kagohl 3/13 claimed an English single seater, near London on this date. I have the crew as Vfw. Kurt Gaede (I assume the pilot), Ltn. Radke (observer), and an unknown gunner; first victories for all.
Kagohl 3/17 claimed two victories, both over London. One by Off. Stv. Rudolf Klimke (pilot), Obltn Walter Leon (observer), and Vfw. Keintrup (gunner); second victories for the first two, first for the gunner. The other by Vfw Fritz Senf (pilot), Ltn. Schulte (obs), and Uffz Schulz (gunner); all first victories. (anybody have first names for these individuals?)

I also have two additional victories for Ltn. Radke, while with Bogohl 3/13. In both cases the pilot is given as Ltn. Genth, for his second and third victories. The first was on Jan 28, 1918, between London and Gravesend; the gunner was Vfw. Zschenderlein (first victory). The second claim was on July 1, 1918, a Handley Page; third claims for Genth and Radke, the gunner is unknown. I do not have a first victory for Ltn Genth. I am wondering if Ltn. Genth and Vfw. Kurt Gaede are the same person? The names are similar, and when printed in Fraktur could be mistaken for each other. And the fact that Radke was the observer in all three cases lends additional weight. Can anyone confirm this, or point me to Genth's first victory?

Frank.

[Regulus]

THANKS MIKE and FRANK ! *


Frank,

There was also the crew of Capt. J. Palethorpe and air Mechanic F. James who were flying a DH4 and took off from Martlesham Heath. *It seems Palethorpe was wounded at the hip. *However I have no more details on the what's and where's of this. *
Hope this helps a little *???

VBR from Regulus

[rammjaeger]

>>I am wondering if Ltn. Genth and Vfw. Kurt Gaede are the same person?<<

Lt. Adolf Genth and Vfw. Kurt Gaede are different persons. Thomas Genth should know more about the victories. He has a homepage about his flying relatives:

http://members.aol.com/tgenth/

[rammjaeger]

This one for English readers:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/tgenth/Foto1e.html

[Regulus]

Quite right Rammjaeger. I should have known as I've already was there.
There is a picture of Gaede and some text over here :

http://members.aol.com/tgenth/Page2e.html#p2e

VBR from Regulus

[Graeme]

London was attacked, unopposed, by nine aircraft whose bombs destroyed many private houses, offices and warehouses. At the same time, another small force of bombers bombed Margate and were intercepted by Second Lieutenant J E R Young and Air Mechanic C C Taylor of No 37 Squadron in Sopwith Strutter A8271. The Strutter was brought down and both crewmen killed.

Second Lieutenant Wilfred Salmon of No 63 Training Squadron went up in Sopwith Pup A6230 from Dartford but was also shot down and killed.

Captain John Palethorpe went up in a DH4 (said to be A7436) with Air Mechanic F James but was forced to retire when hit in the hip.

The Sky Their Battlefield suggests that Young and Taylor may have been the victims of Gaede and Radke while Salmon may have been brought down by Klimke and Leon.

However, the Strutter fell into the sea near the Mappin Lightship so is not a good match for a claim "near London" and I agree with Mike that this was probably a case of "friendly fire" (if such a beast exists).

Joyce Green is only about 15 miles from the east end of London and Salmon probably intercepted the bombers on their return from the capital. If Gaede and Radke claimed a single-seater, Salmon was probably their victim.

The 28 January 1918 claim by Klimke is obviously a reference to Bristol Fighter C4638. 2nd Lt J G Goodyear and 1/AM W T Merchant had a combat between North Weald and Passingford Bridge, Merchant being wounded in the arm. This was presumably Staaken Giant R.IV 12/15 which continued its trip to London where its bombs fell on a printing works, killing 38 people and injuring another 90.

The only Handley Page loss I can find is C6948 of No 214 Sqn which force landed on the beach near Valkenisse on 30 June 1918, the crew of 3 being interned.

Graeme