Armored back plates?

[Romani]

I have read that armored backplates for aircraft seats were introduced early in the war, as a measure of protection against ground fire. The Germans were the first,and the French soon followed suit. The British however lagged behind.

Now, I assume that the headrest seen on some aircraft, notably the SE5 and the Hanriot HD1 was a extension of this plate to cover the head fromshots from behind.

How effective was this protection? considering the penetration power of the rifle cartridges used at the time, it must have been quite thick and heavy to being able to stop bullets. Maybe it was useless against close range shots.

Were they any good? Were they just dead weight swiftly removed?

Though the headrest may have offered a degree of protection, it looks like most pilots preferred improved visibility and thus removed them. I haven't seen photos of any Albatros DVa with them.


Information about the effectiveness of these backplates will be greatly appreciated,for wargaming purposes.I'm designing a rules set and have to cover a lot of thinbgs.More esoteric questions to follow for your perusal, gentlemen

[Romani]

Well, seeing the lack of responses, I'll add my personal speculation to stir up interest.

There are mentions of armored backplates, this were effective against ground fire, but one wonders about the level of protection afforded. How thick the steel plate would have to be to stop a machinegun bullet ? Perhaps with the available information from WWII we can guess at it and the weight of it.

I would guess that a backplate thick enough to be able to stop a bullet would mass between 30 and 50 kg. And considering that only the planes with the most powerful engines ( SE.5a, Spad XIII ) seem to have mounted them, I'd guess that the weight of the armor was too much for most planes.

Or perhaps the armor was limited to the head rest, but the literature says it covered the back as well.

Food for thought.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Romani:
There was no armor backs or seats on the seats of the S.E.5/5a or the SPAD XIIIc.1. However, one pilot that I interviewed ( Lt. Paul S. Winslow,USAS, 56 Squadron, RAF) stated that he carried an iron stove lid to protect the family "jewels" and put it under his seat cushion.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

George Jones an Australian pilot with 4AFC (who eventually went on to command the RAAF in WW2), says in an essay of his war experiences he wrote at the RAF Staff College in the 20's, that he used to put a flattened British helmet under the seat of his Camel.

Mind you he had been hit and quite badly wounded in the lower back (read buttocks?) on a ground attack mission earlier in 1918.

Mind you he had been hit and quite badly wounded in the lower back (read buttocks?) on a ground attack mission earlier in 1918. *

No need for the question mark, Gordon. Jack Wright was hit in the backside on 26 March 1918. Upon landing, he was operated on. When he came to, he found George Jones in the next bed and records “He had an almost identical wound to mine and was receiving similar treatment.” They were both shipped off to the London Hospital followed by recuperation leave spent together.


Vin

I've come across a number of references to pilots assigned to trench-strafing duty trying to protect themselves by putting flattened tin hats under their seats. What I don't recall seeing is any reference to this ad-hoc installation working as desired.

Romani

Right assessement for the SPAD but wrong one for the SE.

The SE 5 were delivered with a bottom seat made of 17 swg. dural plate screwed to the plywood base, and a .4 inch armoured back plate. Drawings A 10517 and A 11355 dated 11 jan 1917.

Some unknown number of *back plates were later on removed *in operations to save weight and were gradually discarded from production line.

Both plates were deleted on the SE 5a.

The head rest is just a piece of plywood with a dural form screwed on top fuselage used to regulate airflow behind the pilot's head, it too was removed because pilots felt that it hampered rear vision.

Regards

[Regulus]

Hi,

A number of the late German C types had also armoured plates protecting the pilot and observer.

VBR from Regulus