Flaming onions – 5 shots?

[tbstreet]

Do we know for certain that the German 3.7 cm Flak used ONLY Vollg. m. L'spur? It would be more typical to use such rounds in a mix with something else, say HE, where a ten-round mag (or burst) would contain only 5 Vollg. m. L'spur in a one-to-one mix. The 2 cm Becker (and the other 2 cm guns whose ammunition is known) definitely used multiple projectile types.

[rammjaeger]

The German main reference works of the 1930/40s about German Flak in WWI all agree about the use of the "Vollgeschoß mit Lichtspur" for 37 mm Flak. (Note, we speak about Flak and not about any German 37 mm.)
Muthers important book about light artillery reports for Fla-MG the use of Vollgeschoß Smk. and Smk. mit Lichtspur (means a mix!). However, he mentions only "Vollgeschoß mit Lichtspur" for the Fla-Kanonen.
Till now I have not seen a single line (!) which mentioned or indicated a mix of ammunition in German text about 37 mm Flak. (I am not speaking about 37 mm Flak used in ground combat or coastal defence here.)

I am aware of a special ammunition for 37 mm Flak. This ammunition included different colours which were used as "pointer" (like lighthouses with different sequences of fire and colour) to direct airplanes , especially night bombers, to their home airfields in mist and bad weather. Other types of ammunition may have been tested too but were not in wide-spread use.

BTW many people are hooked by the spectacular sounding term "flaming onion" but the less exciting term "flaming balls" was used too.
Sentences like the following show there were not only 5 or 10 VmL in the air at the same time:
"2 Lt Joyce´s machine was badly damaged by flaming balls from an anti-aircraft battery. About a dozen balls appeared to be attached to one streamer."

Yes, a misbelieve or misinterprestation but this can hardly happen if there would be common HE grenades used mixed together with the VmL. The distance between the grenades must have been short to cause this impression.

In the absence of any comprehensive research, collection of statistical material and evaluation of the Allied sightings of "flaming onions" I will stick with the reports of the writers of the German Flak books who did serve with the Flak branch in WWI. However, I will not be too dogmatic about that. Temporarly and local conditions - like lack of ammunition, tactical considerations etc - could have caused deviations.

IMHO the ammunition of the Becker-gun was too little to give the same impression like 37-mm-shells. As well only very little numbers were used as Flak - and without satisfying results. Therefore they were handed over to tank busters and others. The gun could not have been that bad if we see the later success after the patent and know-how was secretly transferred to Oerlikon by the Germans.

There are still some earlier questions of mine unanswered. Anybody with an idea?
Sadly, I feel that thread is too much of a 1-way-street.

[rammjaeger]

I checked my sources again and the 5. Sonderband - the Bible of German WWI Flak - underlines repeatedly (here on page 79 for the M-Flak):
"Die Munition war die Granatpatrone der Marine; die Granate sollte als Vollgeschoß wirken."

"The ammunition was the "Granatpatrone" of the Navy; the grenade was intended to have an effect as full projectile."
The grenade was not big enough to carry a load of high explosives additional to the tracer. However, it has to be added the tracer of VmL could enflame an airplane.

I repeat: Nothing indicates any use of HE and therefore a mix of HE and VmL. I could only find VmL mentioned. If I should ever find anything different then I will report back.

IMHO the use of VmL is perfectly suited to explain the myth or mystery around the Flaming Onions. The British aviators knew the pom-pom with HE+tracer mix. However the German 37 mm VmL looked different and was something special to observe.

I repeat my other questions again:
Which kinds of ammunition were used by the British pom-pom for AA purposes?
Is there anything known about the used ratios of tracer and HE (e.g. 1:4)?
Did anybody hear about the number of pom-pom 1- and 2-pounder in AAA service at the end of WWI? I
Is the number of confirmed victories for this type of AAA known?

[rammjaeger]

Do we know for certain that the German 3.7 cm Flak used ONLY Vollg. m. L'spur? It would be more typical to use such rounds in a mix with something else, say HE, where a ten-round mag (or burst) would contain only 5 Vollg. m. L'spur in a one-to-one mix. The 2 cm Becker (and the other 2 cm guns whose ammunition is known) definitely used multiple projectile types.

I come back to this thoughtful question.
Meanwhile I have seen an overview of produced "Flakgeschosse" in WWI.
The list shows the following entries for produced 3.7 cm Flak ammunition:
Sprenggranaten (explosive grenades) 200
Rauchsprenggranaten (explosive smoke grenades) 200
Lichtspurgeschosse (short for VmL) 3 360 000

These data answer the question above.
The German 3.7 cm Flak used VmL and not a mix of HE and tracers.

The following production numbers were given for Flak ammunition for the Becker Flak:
Becker [M I]: 110 000
Becker [M II]: 1 162 000 [By the way M means Muster - model - and II is roman 2 and not 11!]
No doubt, the Becker guns were able to fire different ammunition but for Flak purposes VmL was used.

[rammjaeger]

Here we go again:
Which kinds of ammunition were used by the British pom-pom for AA purposes?
Is there anything known about the used ratios of tracer and HE (e.g. 1:4)?
Did anybody hear about the number of pom-pom 1- and 2-pounder in AAA service at the end of WWI? I
Is the number of confirmed victories for this type of AAA known?