After the Armistice

[agblume]

Hi Everyone, Many thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated. At this point in time most of my archive has been sent to the Museum of Flight in Seattle, so I don't have all the facts I need to respond more fully. I have some very brief notes I made for a talk at a Great War Seminar a few years ago which I'll try to find post in the next few days. Best regards, Augist

[retread]

Just considering the Eastern Front and post war Europe makes me aware of how ignorant I am on the subject and where I will concentrating my reading in the near future. While I really don't know the nature of the fighting during the Russian Revolution I have always had the impression it was wide ranging, sporadic and loosely organized. If that IS true the role of aircraft had to be far different then on the Western Front. More one of locating and harrassing then having photgraphic missions and artillery ranging. What was the condition generally of aircraft in the service of the "White" Russians , were they any better off?
I know these questions are very basic but unfortunately it is an accurate reflection of the state of my ignorance.What I know about the Russian Revolution; The German's shipped Lenin in a sealed railcar to Russia (he wasn't) and the Czar was shot (he was).
What I know about all other post war conflicts resulting from the First World War (less than the above).

This is a shame as the impact of the war was more in its aftermath then the conflict itself. The downfall of established authority is always an opportunity for the meanest s.o.b.'s in the valley to fill in the vacumn. With the exception of the collapse of Rome there is no comparable political vacumn created throughout Western History than that which followed the First World War. When you think of it in those terms I suppose you can't be terribly surprised at the results.

[crankcase]

...marked the end of hostilities on the western front.

within days, romanian troops crossed the carpathians into transylvania, which became united with the kingdom. the following year (1919), the romanians occupied budapest and toppled the communist bela kun government, thus performing a very useful service to all of europe.

nope, the war(s) certainly didn't end on nov. 11, 1918.

i also look forward to more on this theme (and esp. the neglected aerial side of things).
marc

[BuzPezold]

August,

I'm interested in this thread that you have started. Count me in. Hopefully I can contribute something to this. By the way I hope you are doing well.

Buz

[agblume]

Hello retread, If you take the time I believe you'll find a very rich period for study in this period. Lenin and his comrades were in fact shipped in a sealed train from Switzerland to a point where they could make their way into Russia. Few people know that the German Foreign Ministry procided in the neighborhood of 25 million gold marks to fuel the Bolsheviks and revolutionary propaganda in Russia. Workers were the primary target, with troops in the rear next and finally troops at the front. In 1918, while under house arrest in Ekaterinburg in the Urals, the Tsar and his family were murdered on Lenin's orders.

You are correct in assuming that aircraft played a different role in the Civil War. With often fast moving fronts of great length reconnaissance was the key. The Whites, in North Russia, Siberia, the Baltics, South Russia and the Caucasus had no factories to manufacture aircraft, and largely depended on supplies from the British. Aircraft left over from 1917 flew until they literally fell apart.

Many fail to realize that the seeds of the Cold War were planted during the Allied Intervention in Russia. And of course, remember that Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland gained their independence, often hard fought.

As crankcase reminds us, Romania also played a role, not only by removing Bela Kun and his Bolshevik regime in Hungary, but helping to form a bullwark, along with the French, against the Soviets in Bessarabia. Had the Red armies broken through to Budapest the map of Europe would have been much different.

Ukraine fought valiantly for its freedom from the Soviets, but their military and aviation was severly limited and eventually they were defeated. Now of course they are a free and independent nation But not without serious problems.

Thanks for the kind words Buz. Much appreciated.
Best regards, August

[agblume]

There seems to be some interest by a few people in Russia in WWI, the Russian Civil War, Allied Intervention, Polish-Soviet War and other conflicts. These topics were being addressed to some extent on my website Warchron, but conditions were such that we had to close down the Forum. The Chronology and Maps and Links are still available.

Within the next few days we will make available the links to three downloadable bibliographies, one about Russian military-historical events, one about Russian aviation and one named AeroBib, which covers books and source materials about some of the other air services. These links will added to the Mission statement text. When you visit Warchron click on Mission and you will see these links. I'll post a message on his Thread when the links are posted.

My hope is that access to these lists will increase interest in these topics and spur further research. Feedback is always welcome. Please let me know which bibliographies you ahve downloaded and whether you found them of interest. Thank you.

I also hope that we can solve the security issues and get the Warchron Forum back up and running, and that more people will visit there and participate. Best regards, August

ps - Many thanks to the Aerodrome administrators for allowing me to make this information available on their website. Our websites are complimentary with different focuses.

[agblume]

I was very fortunate to have archival access to the details I posted previously about the Red Air Fleet (1918-1920s) which was far more detailed than what I will post today. Information about the air services of the White(anti-Bolshevik) forces ihas been much harder to come by. Many of their reports and unit diaries were burned or lost during the chaotic conditions they endured.

The Volunteer Army in South Russia began in the period May-Sept 1918 with the creation of ten AOs (aviation detachments), another three were formed during 1919. In April 1919 one AO was sent to the Whites on the Urals Front. In July 1919 the Reds captured two AOs. In July 1919 the Whites had 106 operational aircraft. They had no access to aviation plants in their territory and had to make do with what they had at hand.

The Don Army in South Russia formed four AOs in August 1918, another two being added in 1919. The Kuban Army formed two AOs in the period Jan-April 1918. The Whites also formed two AOs in the Astrakhan theatre and one in the Caucasus in the period July-Nov 1918.

White naval aviation in the Black Sea formed nine units which existed for varying periods of time.

No.47 Sqd. RAF served with great distinction in South Russia. 221 Sqd and 266 Sqd. served in the Caspian Sea theatre. HMS Engadine served in the Black Sea for varying periods.

The French had two Escadrilles serving on the Dneistr River Front in support of the Romanian effort to hold off a Red invasion.

The Whites in Siberia formed 15 AOs during 1918 and 1919. Some existed only briefly. They had no access to aviation plants and had to use what they had, including some French supplies and captured Red aircraft. The Czechoslovaks had two AOs, including the former 33rd AO (Hussite) from the old Air Fleet which had defected from the Reds. A fascinating story. The French had one AO and one Air Park in Siberia, while the Japanese had two units.

In North Russia there were two Slavo-British AOs with four RNAS units.

In the Baltic region the Yudenich Army (Whites) had two AOs. The British used bases in the Gulf of Finland for raids on the Red fortress at Kronstadt.

In 1919 the Estonians formed one AO, the Latvians one AO and the Lithuanians (supplied by the Germans) had two AOs.

The White Finns had two AOs and the Germans had two Fl.Abt. serving in Finland.

The German Freikorps had 8-10 units, while the Avalov-Bermondt (Whites) had three AOs operating in the Baltic theatre.

These details were compiled, with the help of many friends, over a period of about 20 years. Perhaps the above very sketchy info will stimulate others to delve into this research field. There is still a great deal to be discovered. Nest regards, agblume

[James A. Pratt III]

This all looks cool Ag i can't wait for your books to come out. Post 1918 the RAF was also busy in other parts of the world. There was the 3rd Afghan war in 1919 and lots of trouble on the North west frontier of India throughout the between the world wars period. In Iraq there was the great 1920 revolt and plenty of other trouble in that country. One finds It amazing that no one has written a modern account of the 1920 Revolt in Iraq considering the current unplesantness in that country.

[Alien]

I'm interested also.

[Ricardo Reis]

I'm also following this one Very interested also in aviation role in Siberia, where they had all those armoured trains...