Machinegun stoppages

[Barrett]

I'm enjoying Alex's Osprey book on 56 Squadron and note a large, persistent number of weapon malfunctions. They occurred over a period of several months (I'm up to winter 1917) in both Vickers and Lewis.

Now, if MY guns malfunctioned as often as they apparently did in 56 Sqn, I would become exceedingly cranky. I'd have a word or three (or four) with the armament officer and his blokes.

One suspects that the problem was systemic, as No. 56 could not be the only unit so affected. Since the problem invovled two types of weapons with different feed mechanisms (belt versus drum) in different climates, the most likely cause was defective .303 ammunition, though that is not addressed. (There's one mention of a broken ammo belt.)

Maxim/Spandaus apparently did not have nearly as much trouble. Anybody have any info/thoughts on the subject?

[Chock]

The Lewis gun was more susceptible to jams than the Vickers if fired in long bursts, regardless of the ammunition quality. That was true even on the ground, where it did not often have the additional problem of freezing temperatures to deal with.

The 1916 British Army documentation on the 'Tactical Handling of Lewis Guns' states:

'The automatic rifle (of which the Lewis gun is a type), though capable of extremely rapid fire, is incapable of sustaining this fire for long. This necessitates, therefore, the use of short bursts of fire as the normal practice. Its inability to sustain fire is primarily due to the fact that a water jacket is not provided (in order to economise weight) and the gun consequently becomes hot very quickly. Further, owing to their lightness, the working parts will not stand constant vibration to the same extent as those of the machine guns.'

By machine guns, it means ones based on the Maxim, such as the Vickers gun. The publication goes on to say that:

'It must be clearly understood that the Lewis gun cannot take the place of the machine gun. It is a supplement to, and not a replacement for the machine gun.'

Al

[Barrett]

Well into 1918 in the history, with problems persisting. The only specifics noted were a couple of broken parts among a dozen-plus instances.

Interesting to note that in June McCudden popped back in to No. 56 for a wink and a nod en route to a new command. He borrowed Bill Irwin's machine to pot the old Hun once more, and shot off a couple hundred rounds w/out effect. He immediately ordered the MGs alignment/harmonisation tested. Both guns were shooting well off the mark, so Jimmy tore a strip off Bill, and well he might.

More to the point: if such things occurred all too frequently in 56, they must have plagued other squadrons at least as much. Just don't hear much about it.

[Chock]

Originally Posted by Barrett

More to the point: if such things occurred all too frequently in 56, they must have plagued other squadrons at least as much. Just don't hear much about it.

I don't think it necessarily follows that other squadrons must have been similarly plagued, for all we know, the air mechanics at 56 might have been rotten in comparison to other Squadrons.

I know 56 was supposedly an elite squadron, but in fact, there is certainly some evidence that having the best mechanics was not uppermost in the mind of the C/O of 56 Squadron's if you read Flying Fury. See page 152 onwards for this bit about McCudden wishing to join 56 after having dinner with some officers from there:

'That evening I was invited to dine with No 56 Squadron. I was introduced to Major RG Blomfield, who commanded 56. This squadron had a wonderful orchestra, composed of about fifteen instruments, and they played remarkably well.
The most amusing thing about it was how Major Blomfield got all these musicians to 56 when he was forming at London Colney in Feb and March of 1917.
It was at that time that the 'Derby Scheme' was operating (that was a recruitment drive named after British Minister of War from 1916-18, the scheme being a voluntary agreement to be available for call up, as opposed to the later full out conscription which came to be the norm as the casualties mounted up), and so Major Blomfield went to all the principal London orchestras and inquired the name of any of the men who were being called up. In this way, several of them not only came to the RFC, but were posted to 56 Squadron afterwards. Among them was the first violinist of the Palace Theatre.
Another method of Major Blomfields was to take half a dozen spare men of various trades round to different squadrons in a tender, and if a squadron which they visited had say, a coppersmith who played the violin, Major Blomfield at once produced a coppersmith from the tender who immediately replaced the coppersmith violinist, who came away in the tender at once. Such is the spirit that will finally win the war.'

Well it might have been Blomfield's opinion that such things would win the war, and all very amusing, but I suspect having the best mechanics and being more concerned with them understanding how to fit Constantinesco gear properly, rather than being able to bang out a tune on a fiddle would be the spirit that would win the war, or at least the spirit that would mean the guns on the aircraft worked properly.

If I was running a squadron and working up a new aircraft type, as 56 were when at Colney, I wouldn't be swapping maintenance personal with experience for potential duffers recently called up, based purely on whether they could entertain me in the mess with a bit of Brahms. Especially when they could be checking the combat readiness of the aircraft, as was their actual responsibility, and most especially with the then new SE5 with the also then new Constantinesco gear. I can imagine other squadron commanders with a better sense of priorities being only too keen to offload new conscripts for guys that probably had better experience.

This quite apart from the fact that hard working ground personnel would also be expected to entertain the officers like some hired help who had nothing better to do. McCudden finds it amusing, but frankly their CO sounds like an idiot with no idea of priorities to me. God knows I love music, but I'd rather have someone who could tune an engine as opposed to a fiddle if I had to fly the plane they'd worked on. The music I'd be concerned with hearing would be the staccato burst of my guns that weren't prone to jamming because I had an armorer who was a better with a cello than a Vickers.

Al

[LeicesterTiger]

As someone who is an Air Mechanic of 56 in a documentary coming out later this year I take offence to that

Seriously though, very interesting post Chock, and thought provoking

[Chock]

Not necessarily true of course, for all I know he might have fluked it and ended up with a bunch of mechanical geniuses who just happened to have a good ear for music, doubtful of course, but then again, maybe it did have a bearing on things, since as there were good and bad pilots, presumably there were also good and bad mechanics.

Can you imagine the modern equivalent? 'Well, we did actually make the bombing run on that Taliban camp, but unfortunately none of the cluster bombs would leave the racks as I flew over. I think it might be something to do with the fact that the CO swapped my armourer for Neil Tennant out of the Pet Shop Boys. Still, it's not all bad, there's a decent gig on in the base tonight.'

Al

[steven brown]

Gentlemen,
This issue is discussed at length in the book, 'Gunning For The Red Baron'. The author states that the main reasons for the high rate of stoppages was weather, the inability of old gun designs to handle the higher gas pressure of new smokeless powder and the brass cartridge failing on ejection. It seems that most pilots experienced at least one jam per month.

[R Gannon]

"Weapon firing all right, weapon stops! Immediate action!

My first hand experience with quite a number of machine guns is that they all have stoppages. I don't think I can remember an M 60 ever getting through a 100 round belt without a stoppage or two. Similarly the .30 cal & .50 cals had to be 'head spaced & timed' after every strip & assemble - which if wasn't done properly would cause all manner of problems & frustration. However when done right with a timing guage (and not a six inch screw driver); they could purr. The MG 3 (post WW2 MG 42) was the most trouble free MG I ever dealt with - as long as you did the barrel changes regularly - book said every 150 rounds, but experience said 250 was ok - in the dark barrels glowed though. The key of course with all MG's was knowing your stoppage drills.

Clearly the above wing mounted Lewis would have been a nuisance in this regard and this comes through in Comat Reports.

Of course, I think several will know that during tests, Vickers were fired for extrenmely long periods without problems. But agree with Chock the trials & tribulations of being aircraft mounted would make a difference.

It is also evident from my work with CR's & SRB's of other squadrons that stoppages were a way of life in all squadrons.

As to the Germans, I simply don't think we have the same level of surviving detailed records to draw comparisons. It is known for example, that MvR had had a stoppage in his last fight!

Cheers RRRRRRRRuss

[Pips]

It is known for example, that MvR had had a stoppage in his last fight!

As did Udet in his tussle with Guynemer. Interestingly though Voss didn't in his epic battle with 56 Squadron, and he must have fired a lot of bullets in that battle.

[Epee]

Stoppages with designs that were Maxim-based, like the Vickers and Spandau, were common to the point of being routine. That is why aircraft designers of the Great War could never get away with burying the MG's for the sake of lowering drag and why nobody used wing-mounted MG's (save the almost experimental Dolphin mounting of Lewis') until the adoption of the Browning in the 1930s.

The Maxim uses a heavy feed block to lift the rounds to the chamber and so high-G maneuvers easily prevent this from happening. The good news is that this same design prevents the double-feeding of rounds and all that is required to resume firing is to re-cock the operating handle or maybe bang the side of the receiver if the bolt is stuck at the bottom of it's travel. Voss may have experienced stoppages during his epic last flight but could have cleared them so quickly that no one noticed.