Bauaufsicht Nr.13 at Fokker Flugzeugwerke

[Laserlloyd]

I just want to see if I have some of the facts correct that I have pieced together on the Bauaufsicht (Construction supervision) and especially Nr.13 assigned to the Fokker Flugzeugwerke. All of this information I have pieced together from lots of posts that Dan-San has made, I want to thank him for all his knowledge on this subject.

The Bauaufsicht was under control of the Idflieg and numbered 1-45 (with the exception of there was no Nr.28) and were subordinate to Inspektion des Flugzeugwesens, and Zentral=Abnahme=Kommission (ZAK)..

The responsibility of the Bauaufsicht was to oversee each aircraft manufacturer conformed to the BLV (Bau-und Lieferungsvorschriften für Militärflugzeug (Building and supply regulations for military aircraft)

The Fokker Flugzeugwerke was assigned Bauaufsicht Nr.13 that also included responsibly for the inspections at Gebrüder Perzina Werk I and II and Pianofortefabrik Nützmann.

Bauaufsicht Nr.13 was commanded by Ltn.Rodhe and in his staff were two officers, Ingenieur des Inspektion (engineer inspection), Ingenieur Betsch (engineer Betsch),
4 Werkmeister=Diensttuern,(Foreman, on duty)
2 Unteroffizern,
11 mann für Bureau und Betrieb,(Office and Management)
1 Nachflieger.(Flight test pilot?)

From the acceptance reports that we do have from the Fokker Flugzeugwerke shows more the 1 Nachflieger, Grosse, Weidner, Schutzemeister, Mathais, Niesen and Petermann makes 6 Nachflieger’s.

At the Fokker Flugzeugwerke, Bauaufsicht Nr.13 worked out of Gebäude Nr.11 one of the smaller buildings located on the property on the north end next to Halle 1.

The responsibility of the Bauaufsicht personal was to oversee all aspects of the manufacture. For nuts, bolts, rivets, turnbuckles, taps, dies, etc there were in Berlin a Bauaufsicht went to the various companies to check those types of items for compliance and acceptance before they could shipped to the aircraft manufacturer. The same went for wheels, radiators, propellers that the manufacturer would order.

If a required marking was missing, the aircraft would be rejected and sent back for correction. The BLV requirements are very specific. Every part of the aircraft was subject to inspection by the Bauaufsicht Inspectors during the manufacturing processes as well as final inspection. For example, wing ribs were marked to identify the ribs say a Fokker D.VII urpper wing the ribs were marked from the center upper right third rib would be marked o3r, o = ober (upper) 3 rib number, r= recht (right) and marked in black ink in the middle of the rib between the spars on the inside face. While the corresponding rib on the left side is structurally and dimensionally identical, but because of the marking, becomes unique. In the acceptance documents every part is listed by maker, part number and serial number, gas tanks, oil tank, exhaust pipe, radiator, wheels, etc.

I would be interested if you have any thing to correct or add.

Dan-San has mention that he has some of the BLV documents and amendments. Are these available, I understand that these are in German and I would like them translated. I would really like to see if I could have them translated.

Lloyd…

[Varese2002]

Interesting that Fokker got his control via Bauaufsicht No.13. You may be aware that there were quidelines for the ZAK to do their inspections within the industry. These were written down in a book of 83 pages

Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Zentral-Abnahme-Kommission <Z.A.K.> der Flugzeugmeisterei d. Kgl. Preuss. Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen. 1918.

Kgl. Preuss. etc. stands for Königliche Preussische Inspektion der Fliegertruppen to give it their full title.

..... I understand that these are in German

I do not think you had the idea that official government / army document were anything else than German then and now ?

Kees

[Laserlloyd]

Hi Kees,

Thanks for the information.

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Interesting that Fokker got his control via Bauaufsicht No.13. You may be aware that there were guidelines for the ZAK to do their inspections within the industry. These were written down in a book of 83 pages

Do you have the name of this book? So who used these guidelines? Is there any connection to this to the BLV guidelines? It sounds like the ZAK also had their own inspectors so now there are two inspection departments at the Fokker Flugzeugwerke at the same time so who did what?

Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Zentral-Abnahme-Kommission <Z.A.K.> der Flugzeugmeisterei d. Kgl. Preuss. Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen. 1918.

I was made a where of a three volume set of books that contained over 1200 pages and 790+plates called "Flugzeugmeisterei der Inspektion der Fliegertruppen" Might this be what your talking about?

So now what is the difference between the "Flugzeugmeisterei der Inspektion der Fliegertruppen" and the "Bau-und Lieferungsvorschriften für Militärflugzeug"?

Lloyd...

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Laserlloyd

Hi Kees,

Thanks for the information.

Do you have the name of this book? So who used these guidelines? Is there any connection to this to the BLV guidelines? It sounds like the ZAK also had their own inspectors so now there are two inspection departments at the Fokker Flugzeugwerke at the same time so who did what?


I was made a where of a three volume set of books that contained over 1200 pages and 790+plates called "Flugzeugmeisterei der Inspektion der Fliegertruppen" Might this be what your talking about?

So now what is the difference between the "Flugzeugmeisterei der Inspektion der Fliegertruppen" and the "Bau-und Lieferungsvorschriften für Militärflugzeug"?

Lloyd...

A lot of questions, but let's try

• Richtlinien

The description of the Richtlinien (=Guidelines) was as given

Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Zentral-Abnahme-Kommission <Z.A.K.> der Flugzeugmeisterei d. Kgl. Preuss. Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen. 1918. 83 pages

A copy of this 83 pages (!) Richtlinien / Guidelines is in the Library of the Technisches Museum Berlin



Note that this copy is from the Peter M. Grosz estate (marking PMG).

It would surely be interesting to see the first page (title page) as the description differ somewhat

• Use of the Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Z-A-K etc.

These are guidelines for the control procedures that the Z-A-K must perform when accepting aircraft. Surely these procedures are also given to aircraft producers, so they know what to expect. Adjacent to these procedures will be standardized control lists, which had to be filled in following the given procedures. With these two things (standardized control lists and procedures) the Z-A-K could rationalize their acceptance procedures.

Of course it will we quite clear when looking through the book(let) - 83 pages of them.

Things have not changed very much. Acceptance now is the same working procedure.

• Bau- und Liefervorschriften

Bau[vorschriften]- und Liefervorschriften für Heeresflugzeuge (B.L.V.)
Titelzusatz: Ausg. 1918 (Frühere Bestimmgn werden durch diese Ausg. ungültig)
Impressum: [s.l.] : [o. Verl.], 1918
Umfang: 79 S.

These guidelines were aimed at all of the aircraft builders for the Army (Heer). It contained guidelines how to build and guidelines how to deliver the machines.

This title is again from the Peter M. Grosz collection now in the Library of the Technisches Museum Berlin.

Beware that these B.L.V. (abbreviation) were updated, so there is also a 1917 edition, which was updated by this 1918 edition.

• Organisation

There are the following participants -

- aircraft manufacturer (Albatros, Fokker etc.)
responsible for building and delivering according to the BLV

- Bauaufsicht
responsible for control on the manufacturer, is the BLV followed to the letter

- Zentral Abnahme Kommission (Z-A-K)
responsable for the acceptance of delivered aeroplanes (Heeres Flugzeuge). They follow the Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Z-A-K [Guidelines for the work done by the Z-A-K]. These guidelines were set on paper by the Flugmeisterei of Idflieg.

Describing this procedures I think the German army has organized the whole from design, building and acceptance very rigorously, so they control the quality of the delivered machines.

Any more guidelines ?

Yes, as delivery of all sort of was decentralized, there were all sorts of Norm Blätter for constructors of these pieces, like nuts, bolts, wood, p material ropellers and (recently on the Forum) wheels of landing gear, especially the spokes.

This maybe your 3-volume 1200 page book. It is an amazing detail. Not specifically for Germany as other nations had doubtless the same documentation, otherwise no manufacturer could do things right. Again, not very different from subcontractor work now.

I hope I have answered your questions a little bit, but it would be nice to have a look at the different books which were presented here.

Have a fine day

Kees

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Kees:
I am wondering if copies are available?
Blue skies Kees,
Dan-San

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Hi Kees:
I am wondering if copies are available?
Blue skies Kees,
Dan-San

Hallo Dan-San. Most libraries make copies (at a price ). So I searched around on the site of the Deutsches Technik Museum [DTM]. The information page for the library is here. This is a very big library in the technical (historical) subject. Look at the mention of PMG

.....und die Bibliothek des bedeutenden Luftfahrthistorikers Peter Michael Grosz hinzu

It is stated that all books can be consulted in the library, no lending of books / documents is allowed. There is no mention about copying, I will inform at the DTM about the possibilities of copying and the costs. Beware, it is mostly prohibitive.

Kees

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Lloyd:
I will break down the organization of Idflieg.
At the top is :
Inspektion der Fliegertruppen (Idflieg). (Inspectorate of Aviation )Troops.
At Adlerhof, Johanisthal Airfield, Berlin.
All Aviation Air Forces in the field.
I. Flugzeugmeisterei der Fliegertruppen,(Flz) (Directorate of Aircraft Production.) The Flugzeugmeisterei is responsible for the procurement of all aviation materiel, aircraft, engines, all accessories. It is charged with the responsibility for the inspection of factories, approval and test of all new designs and improvements in all equipment. The Flugzeugmeisterei is located at Charlottenburg near Berlin. Subordinate offices are located at Aachen, Bork and Liegnitz.
Offices subordinate to the Flugzeugmeisterei are:
A. Abteilung für Konstruction Neuheiten, (Konab) Inventions Department. During the war all new inventions came under the control of this office. The information was dispursed to aircraft industries for the good of the country and aircraft products. After the war disbursement were made to the Patent holders.
B.Prüfanstalt und Werft. (P.u.W) Test Section and workshops. The Directorate was located at Aldershof, Johanisthal Airfield. Performed test on all new aircraft, engines and equipment. Also carried out repairs on aircraft engines and various equipment, i.e. compasses, instruments, bombs, bombsights and electrical equipment. Was concerned with Flieger Funker Versuchs Abteilung, (Aviation Radio Experimental Section), Bomben Versuch Abteilungen, ( Bomb Experimental Sections), Werkmeisterschule (Foreman Schools) and Waffenmeisterschulen Weapons Foremen Schools).
C.Zentral Abnahme Kommission, (ZAK) Central Acceptance Commission.
This Commission is based at Adlershof. The ZAK is reponsibile for the inspection of all aviation materiel at the contractor's factory through its subordinate Bauaufsicht Nr.1 to Nr.45.
D.Licht und Bildabteilung, (Lubia) Photographic Department. Lubia is located at Karlhorst and is divided into two sections, experimental section and photographic equipment. also it is responsible to maintaining and suppling to units in the field. Lubia is reponsible for the supply ofphotographs to Map department in the War Office.
E.Waffen und Munition Beschaffungsamt,(Wumba) Supplies Department
This office is under the WAr Office. This is a very important Section and is responsible for maintaining supplies of raw material to the factories.
F. Fabrikaufsicht is responsible for the inspection of engine factories,
one section of this office is Motorenbau Abteilung, (Moba) is charged with the on site inspection of aircraft engines and also with the deliveries of engines to aircraft factories.
II. Kommando der Fleigerersatzabteilungen Kdo.Fea.
Command of all training schools.
III.Kommando der ResenflugzeugabteilungenKdo.Rfa.
Command of giant aircraft uniots.
IV. Hauptkassenverwaltung, Accountant General.
Services all formation and units at home and at the front.
Subordinate to the Accountant General is Beleidungsamt. Provides pay and clothing to all air force personnel. Sub office to Beleidungsamt is Sonderbeleidungsamt, provides clothing to flight personnel.
Well Lloyd this was a little long, but I thought for the understanding of allwho are interested, it should be complete.
Blue skies,
Lloyd,
Dan-San

[Laserlloyd]

Dan-San,

Take up as much of the page as you need. Thank you for the break down I have never seen this or read this any were before so this is fantastic information.

Kees,

Thank you for you breakdown and the listing of"Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Zentral-Abnahme-Kommission <Z.A.K.> der Flugzeugmeisterei d. Kgl. Preuss. Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen" at Technisches Museum Berlin. I did use the link you provide but I'm having a hard time navigating because on my non-German knowledge. I really would like to get a copy of this book.

Bau[vorschriften]- und Liefervorschriften für Heeresflugzeuge (B.L.V.)
Titelzusatz: Ausg. 1918 (Frühere Bestimmgn werden durch diese Ausg. ungültig)
Impressum: [s.l.] : [o. Verl.], 1918
Umfang: 79 S.

I tried to convert this but I can't make sense of it.
What is this refering to?
"Impressum: [s.l.] : [o. Verl.], 1918
Umfang: 79 S."

Were can the BLV be obtained. Does the Ferko collection have this? does anyone have a copy of this?
__________________________________________________ ______________

The "Richtlinien für die Tätigkeit der Zentral-Abnahme-Kommission <Z.A.K.>" was lets say enforced by the Bauaufsicht for the"control procedures that the Z-A-K must perform when accepting aircraft" that included the BLV guidelines on how the manufacture built the aircraft. Is this correct?

As always threads like this what make this the best forum that actually get down to the nuts and bolts on how this really were. You guys make all of us better researchers.

Lloyd...

[Varese2002]

Some extra information, according to your questions



This is the description of the document as in the library catalog. To describe documents (books, reports, serials etc.) there are international guidelines, which believe it or not are very comprehensive as it has to comply with all nations, languages etc.

One of the golden rules in cataloging that the document is taken at face value - what's on the title page that's the source, no more and no less. What you see in this catalogue description is that certain data is between parentheses ( [...] ). These data were added by the cataloguer, but cannot be found on the document. Perhaps there were other secondary sources to describe the document.

Sure the catalogue is in German and presents -

- Title
- Subtitle [Titelszusatz]
- Publisher [Verfasserangaben]
- Data about place, time [Impressum]
Here s.l . means 'sans location' (French) - that's no location of the publisher / printer is given in the book
o. Verl. means ohne Verleger (without publisher), not given anywhere in the book
- Number of pages [Umfang]
79 S. means 79 Seiten ( = pages)

You see the exact description of these books is quite a work

In the meantime I have found also a 1916 edition of the B.L.V.



After the end of the war the IdFlieg published a commemorative book - Geschichte der deutschen Flugzeugindustrie, which might be very interesting for you. It is in two volumes and dates from summer 1918.





The second volume deals completely with the different Bauaufsichte 1-45.

A last one, as you have difficulty reading German, it might be a good move to turn first to the brilliant study of John H. Morrow Jr. German Air Power in world war 1, ISBN 0-8032-3076-1 which is very heavily based on German original archive documents. This study is mostly about the economics, organizational study, politics (!) and far less on the actual aircraft.

Appendix 6 The Construction Inspectorates (Bauaufsichten - BAs) and Their Factories, Summer 1918 gives a comple list of these (probably based on the second volume of the IdFlieg historical work).

Incidentally BA 28 is given as the Euler-Werke, Frankfurt am Main

Have a fine day

Kees

[Laserlloyd]

kees,

Thank you for your assistants with the listings. I will make this a priority in obtaining some how and having them in translated. I find it hard to believe that it hasn't already been done as this would make a great article for OTF.

I looks like Peter had a hell of a collection of source material.


So the Bauaufsicht in essence were quality control department of the Idflieg. I have seen an heard about the BA Nr.13 not following all laid out guidelines all the time. As in the point that the Fokker Flugzeugwerke produced the Dr.I well in to May of 1918 still with the Eisernes Kreuz with the full white field at time of acceptance. In fact this style of the national insignia ended on October 29th, 1916. After that date the Eisernes Kreuz was changed to the 50mm white border style. We see these planes then implementing this cross change once there arrive at the Jasta's.

Isn't the national insignia part of the Bauaufsicht acceptance guidelines and as far as the Fokker Flugzeugwerke goes wouldn't this have saved them some whit paint thus cutting the cost of manufacturing the plane?

Lloyd...