KagOHL 4/22 loss on 23 Apr 1917

[Immo_Frese]

Hi,

on 23 April 1917 a machine of Kasta 22 within KagOHL 4 crashed near Monceau les Leup near the border from german 7. to german 2. Army and killed the crew pilot Lt.d.R. von Massow, observers Olt. Möller and Lt.Steuber and gunner Uffz.Fritz instantly.

Does anybody know the circumstances of this loss? What sort of aircraft did von Massow fly? Was it a Gotha?

I have different sources claiming that the crew was either shot down by AAA or by a fighter...

Who can help?

Immo

[Immo_Frese]

Hm, does really nobody know the aircraft-types served within KagOHL 4 in the spring of 1917?

<_< Immo

[Soderbaum]

Sorry Immo

I dont knew what type of aircraft the crew was brought down in...

However, I wonder if the dead pilot Fritz von Massow possible was related to Ludwig von Massow who among others was an Adj in Jasta 1 and 3..?..?


Gunnar

[Immo_Frese]

Yes Gunnar, he is. That&#39;s why I asked about the incident. BTW, the first name by which he was known was Friedrich, his other first names were August Ludwig.

Err, you say he was with Jasta 1 for some time? That is complete new for me Please tell me more about it&#33;

Immo

[Soderbaum]

Hello Immo

For about 20 Years ago I received some material about Jasta 3 from US, in this material it is stated that when Lt dR Ludwig von Massow arrived on 20 May 1917 it was from Jasta 1...&#33;
It is also stated that he left 16 Dec 1917, which apparently is wrong as Oblt Hans Kurt von Grawert took over as Adjutant over Jasta 3 already on 28 Oct 1917...&#33;
In the book The Jasta Pilots is a Lt dR Masskow mentioned as have been Adjutant in Jasta 1...

So I made a conclusion, that they probably are the same man, but perhaps am I wrong here..??

However none of these sources mention any original source, so the Jasta 1 reference could perhaps be a typo..?

The death of Friedrich von Massow could well be the reason that Ludwig got a more or less stab work..?

Perhaps can Rick clear up this "mess"...?


Gunnar

[Immo_Frese]

Hi Gunnar,

yes, that&#39;s a very strange story. I&#39;m rather convinced that there was made somewhere a transscription fault. It is possible that Lt.d.R. Friedrich von Massow served at least with two different Jastas, but the only Jasta I&#39;m sure about is Jasta 3. He was transfered back to KagOHL 4 at the beginning of spring 1917 and was KIA in the incident mentioned in my first posting.

I don&#39;t have a clue who the Ludwig von Massow could be, but he was not a brother of Friedrich since Friedrich only had sisters.

The only other member of the v.Massow family I know who had a relation to the Fliegertruppe was Albrecht von Massow, who was for a short time an observer with FFA 25 in the winter 1914/15.

Of course the v.Massow family is very huge, so I could have missed someone

Still confused...

Immo

[Rick]

Well, I&#39;ll try, but will probably just add to the confusion. First, I think Gunnar and Immo are discussing the SAME man: Ltn.d.R. Friedrich August Ludwig von Massow. The problem may be that we are not sure which of his first names he used as his &#39;ruf&#39; name. I have opted for Friedrich as that is the name used in the von Eberhardt listing (actually Fritz). Gunnar, in the Ferko stuff, he is noted as being at the first mobilization of Jasta 3 on 1Sep16. And his first name is given as Friedrich. Furthermore, he, Ltn. Mohr and Ltn. von Busse all claimed the same French Nieuport two-seater on 15Sep16 S. Peronne. It was counter claimed by Ltn. Frankl, Jasta 4, and credited to him (Frankl) as his 10th victory. I do not have an "out" date for von Massow, but 16Dec17 does not appear in Ferko&#39;s stuff. It is probably not correct if Friedrich von Massow is indeed Ludwig von Massow, as we know he was KIA on 23 April 1917.

Ltn.d.R. Masskow was appointed OzbV of Jasta 1 on 13Sep18 from AFP 17, but the order was cancelled, and he (returned or stayed at) AFP 17 the same day. Note, he was not a "von".

Confused?? Rick

[Immo_Frese]

Originally posted by Rick@Jan 14 2004, 08:09 PM
[b] Furthermore, he, Ltn. Mohr and Ltn. von Busse all claimed the same French Nieuport two-seater on 15Sep16 S. Peronne. It was counter claimed by Ltn. Frankl, Jasta 4, and credited to him (Frankl) as his 10th victory.

Thanks Rick,
as usual very interesting. Do you mean that - besides v. Massow - v.Budde joined Jasta 3 as mobilisiation-personnel in early Sep 1916 too and that Mohr probably also belonged to KagOHL 4 ?

Immo

[Rick]

Immo,

Well sort of. Oblt. Hermann Kohze, the first Jasta 3 C.O. came from KG 4 (don&#39;t know which Kasta). Ltn. Joachim von Busse (buSSe) came from KG 4/22. Both on 1Sep16. Ltn. Alfred Mohr spent a week at Jasta 4 (1Sep - 7Sep16) and then to Jasta 3. von Busse was later with Jasta 20.

Ltn. Hans-Hermann von Budde was with Jasta 29, 15, and 5. He was Gontermann&#39;s close friend. Note: von Budde and von Busse.

I can provide service records if you would like. R.

[Rick]

Forgot to say, Mohr went to Jasta 4 from KG 4/22. R.