Josef C.P. Jacobs

[CharlesNungesser]

Hi Folks!

Could you please tell me more about Germany's Black Knight?
What other aircraft did he fly beside the Fokker Dr1 and were
they all painted black?

[Barker]

All marks of Albatros, D.II - .Va., The Dr1 you mention and a Fok.D.VII.
All were black as you note except his first a/c.
The Alberts had either 2 & 3 camo'd wings, or in the D.V's, loz. wings.
The first entirely black a/c is the Dr1 (which came in three versions and there were at least 2 of them, one with a "aftermarket Bentley"). The D.VII was black, as well.

IIRC, his D.II was varnished wood fuselage, as per typical with "KOBES" painted on each side, aft of the cockpit.
It may have been an early D.III.
"Kobes" was the nickname the other pilots gave him or he gave himself, which.

Right now, my sources are scant and do not know how to post a scan from my puter to this site.

Helluva pilot.

[Craig]

Also, the Pfalz D.III and D.IIIa. He noted that these were more maneuverable than, but slower than the Albatros D.Va.

[wingedwarrior]

Hi CharlesNungesser,

Josef Jacobs flew a Fokker Dr.I and D.VII during the same time period late in the war. He preferred the triplane for low altitude "front flights", and reserved his Fokker biplane for high altitude patrols. BTW, the nickname "Black Knight of Germany", is usually reserved for Eduard Ritter von Schleich, who was also known for his black-colored aeroplanes. As they both began flying black aircraft at roughly the same time, I believe the French coined the term "Chevalier noir" when von Schleich flew on the Verdun front. Kissenberth and Udet also flew mostly black aircraft at various times in their careers.

Nevertheless, Ira Jones was among the pilots who later described their combats with black aircraft, incorrectly believing that the pilot they fought on a certain day was Schleich. To this day, many people associate a black DrI with von Schleich, even though there is no evidence to support the claim that he ever flew a triplane in combat. Thus, various episodes of skill and bravery involving Jacobs get somewhat lost in history due to some incorrect identifications made long ago. This is where I believe 'revisionist' history has it's place!

regards

[Cigogne]

Perhaps a new term is needed to describe this... "Correctionist" vs. "Revisionist."

I'm all for accurate history as long as there are proofs to back it up and not assumptions. When new information from a hitherto unknown source comes up, and can be verified, that is great! We see this happening with many of the photographs and other documents coming to light.

[Craig]

Correctionist or Revisionist, there is a hefty contingent that prefers that "what is written" not be questioned in any way, shape, or form. I'm all for putting a finer point on this, as there are certainly scoundrels who are "revisionist", just as there are scoundrels who wrote the "official" versions.

What it comes down to, is that while the events occurred as they did, and haven't changed since(duh), our understanding of them does change. And new information comes to light now and then, whether it is in the form of documentation or the realization that so-and-so wrote the Official History with a slant in the first place.

[StephenLawson]

Try these installments of the most popular journals for WWI aviation enthusiasts, research fiends, wingnuts and devotees.

Cross & Cockade Intl.
25 #2 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.I”
25 #3 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.II”
27 #2 1996 “Kobes in FFA 11"
29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”

Over The Front
7 #4 1992 “Kobes in Jasta 22"
9 #4 1994 “Kobes in Fosta W.”

[Stephan]

Did n't Von Schleich also fly in ww2. BoB? 3 victories. for more reading on Josef Jacobs grab a copy of "The aces Talk" on e-bay by Edward Sims. He interviewed Jacobs. Also Carl Von Shoenbeck who flew with Richthofen. I am also interested in Von schleich. Are there any books that cover his career in detail?

[wingedwarrior]

Hi Stephan,

Eduard Ritter von Schleich did fly combat missions in WW2 as the Wing commander of JG26. This occured during the period of September to December 1939. I can tell you with confidence that he did not score any confirmed victories while with this unit. There is evidence though that he did fly with his wing on several occasions during this period. He was always someone who liked to "mix it up" with an enemy. JG26 was stationed on the Northwest portion of Germany at this time, and their primary mission was air defence of the western frontier. Because of this, they did not see too much action.

Try 'Ritter von Schleich' by Fried Lange, or 'Der Schwarze Ritter' by Schenzinger (both written in German; sorry no translation available) for in depth information on von Schleich's flying career during WWI and into the 1930's. Unfortunately, not much has been published specifically on von Schleich since these two books came out in the 1930's. But you can find his name popping up in a large variety of books on WWI aviation. I find him to be most fascinating.

regards

[Rick]

Well, just to complete this thread:

Hptm. Eduard Ritter von Schleich, pilot

(Oblt.)____ FEA 1b_____ 3May15 - 20Nov15
_________ AFP 6______20Nov15 - 18Dec16
_________ FFA 2b_____19Dec16 - 3Apr16 WIA,lt.
_________ FFA 2b _____ 3Apr16 - 16May16
__ KG Hoffmeister (KG 1)_ 17May16 - 23May16
__________FFA 2b_____ 23May16 - 5Aug16 WIA
_____ FEA 1b Instr._____ 5Aug16 - 8Sep16
________ FS I C.O._____ 9Sep16 - 12Feb17
_____ Schusta 28b C.O. 12Feb17 - 4May17
__________ AFP C_____ 4May17 - 4May17
____________ JsSch I____ 4May17 - 21May17
___________ Jasta 21_____ 21May17 - 23Oct17
________ Jasta 21 Stv. C.O. 22May17 - 26May17
___________ Jasta 21 C.O. 26May17 - 23Oct17
__________ Jasta 32b C.O. 23Oct17 - 10Jan18
_____________ FS I Instr. 10Jan18 - 18Mar18
(Hptm.)_________JGp 8 C.O. 18Mar18 - 30Sep18
______________JG IVb C.O. 30Sep18 - EOW

And, for the sake of completeness:

Ltn.d.R. Josef Carl Jacobs, pilot:

FEA 9_________________ 1Aug15 -
FBS Gotha________________________
AFP 1________________________ - 3Jul15
FFA 11_________________ 3Jul15 - 3Apr16
Leave _________________ 3Apr16 - 7May16
FFA 11_________________ 7May16 - 8May16
Fokker Staffel West_______ 8May16 - 1Jul16
KEK East________________ 1Jul16 - 8Oct16
Jasta 12_________________ 8Oct16 - 26Nov16
Jasta 22________________ 26Nov16 - 15Dec16
JsSch I_________________ 15Dec16 - 15Jan17
Jasta 22________________ 15Jan17 - 2Aug17
Jasta 7 C.O. _____________ 3Aug17 - 21Jan18
Leave__________________ 21Jan18 - 3Feb18
Jasta 7 C.O. _____________ 2Feb18 - 23Jul18
Leave__________________ 23Jul18 - 24Aug18
Jasta 7 C.O._____________ 24Aug18 - 25Oct18
Leave __________________ 25Oct18 - 2Nov18
Jasta 7 C.O.______________ 2Nov18 - EOW

HA! Tricked the Forum format !!! Rick (But I bet a dollar to donuts that the spacing will still be screwed up!!)