Lt. Max Ritter von Müller

Hi,

Can anyone confirm my suspicions that Lt. Max Ritter von Müller received the Order of the House of Hoherzollern? I sometimes wonder if he was caught up in the political fallout between the Prussian and Bavarian states in 1917. What can be said about this 'feud' that apparently occurred?

regards

[Soderbaum]

Hi Wingedwarrior

In the book about Max Müller from 1939 there is a page(109) with all of his decorations...

According to this he received the Hohenzollern Hausorden mit Schwerten on 20 Jul 1917....


Gunnar

Hi Soderbaum,

Thanks for confirming that for me. While we are at it, can you tell me if Lt. Julius Buckler ever received this award? I understand that the HOH was only awarded to officers, and Buckler didn't receive his commission until 18 November 1917.

regards

[Immo_Frese]

Hi WW,

yes, from what I know about Buckler, he really skipped the Hohenzollern. I never saw a photo on which one could see the ribbon band of it. There are very few NCO'S who received the Hohenzollern. One that comes to mind was Vfw. Festner, a comrade of MvR in Jasta 11 during 'Bloody April'...

On the other hand Buckler was one of those guys who received the Golden Military Merit Cross, the PlM for NCO's. IMO the prestige of this order was higher than the Hohenzollern...

Immo

[Rick]

Well, I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but Max Müller did NOT win the Hohenzollern House Order. Gunnar is correct in pointing out that in the book "Der Flieger von Rottenburg" it states that he won it on 20 Jul 1917. However, Max was still an Offz.Stv. on this date. He wasn't promoted to Ltn. (and active at that) until 26 August 1917, and therefore he was not eligible for the HOH. I quote from Neal O'Connor's Vol. I on the Bavarian awards:

"July 1917 was marked by the receipt of one of the most unique and exclusive awards of WWI. On July 14 Prussia awarded Müller their Kreuz der Inhaber mit Schwerten (Member's Cross with Swords) of the Royal Hohenzollern House Order. This was an honor cross for non-commissioned personnel that was affiliated with the Royal Hohenzollern House Order and should not be confused with the latter which went only to officers. Only 16 awards of the Members Cross with Swords were made during the war, with ten of them going to aviators."

Immo, I haven't checked on Festner yet, but I suspect he also may have been one of the 10 mentioned above in lieu of the HOH. Germany, and Prussia in particular, was very 'picky' about awards, and if you didn't qualify or weren't eligible for a certain award, you didn't get it. Period. That was why Germany instituted the Golden Military Merit Cross for non-commissioned personnel. They were not officers and as such COULD NOT win the Pour le Merite.

Sorry guys. Rick

[Immo_Frese]

Rick,

your absolutely right with your statement about the HOH (Members Cross...) I stand corrected regarding Festner.

Immo

Let the truth be known! Thanks for the added info Rick. Would you think that Lt. Buckler received this Honor Cross as well? Thanks Immo for straightening me out on Lt. Buckler and the HOH..

regards,

Darren

[Rick]

Originally posted by wingedwarrior@Jan 30 2004, 02:19 PM
[b] Would you think that Lt. Buckler received this Honor Cross as well?

A quick scan of the list doesn't seem in indicate that he did. R.

Thanks again Rick.

regards