The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Sign the Guestbook
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
The Aerodrome News
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History


Learn how to remove ads

The Aerodrome Forum

Learn how to remove ads

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > WWI Aviation > People


People Topics related to WWI aviation personnel

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 January 2004, 05:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
wingedwarrior
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi,

Can anyone confirm my suspicions that Lt. Max Ritter von Müller received the Order of the House of Hoherzollern? I sometimes wonder if he was caught up in the political fallout between the Prussian and Bavarian states in 1917. What can be said about this 'feud' that apparently occurred?

regards
 
Old 29 January 2004, 02:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,274
 
Hi Wingedwarrior

In the book about Max Müller from 1939 there is a page(109) with all of his decorations...

According to this he received the Hohenzollern Hausorden mit Schwerten on 20 Jul 1917....


Gunnar
Soderbaum is offline  
Old 29 January 2004, 06:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
wingedwarrior
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi Soderbaum,

Thanks for confirming that for me. While we are at it, can you tell me if Lt. Julius Buckler ever received this award? I understand that the HOH was only awarded to officers, and Buckler didn't receive his commission until 18 November 1917.

regards
 
Old 30 January 2004, 02:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Immo_Frese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,177
 
Hi WW,

yes, from what I know about Buckler, he really skipped the Hohenzollern. I never saw a photo on which one could see the ribbon band of it. There are very few NCO'S who received the Hohenzollern. One that comes to mind was Vfw. Festner, a comrade of MvR in Jasta 11 during 'Bloody April'...

On the other hand Buckler was one of those guys who received the Golden Military Merit Cross, the PlM for NCO's. IMO the prestige of this order was higher than the Hohenzollern...

Immo
__________________
Nec aspera terrent!
Immo_Frese is offline  
Old 30 January 2004, 05:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,843
 
Well, I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but Max Müller did NOT win the Hohenzollern House Order. Gunnar is correct in pointing out that in the book "Der Flieger von Rottenburg" it states that he won it on 20 Jul 1917. However, Max was still an Offz.Stv. on this date. He wasn't promoted to Ltn. (and active at that) until 26 August 1917, and therefore he was not eligible for the HOH. I quote from Neal O'Connor's Vol. I on the Bavarian awards:

"July 1917 was marked by the receipt of one of the most unique and exclusive awards of WWI. On July 14 Prussia awarded Müller their Kreuz der Inhaber mit Schwerten (Member's Cross with Swords) of the Royal Hohenzollern House Order. This was an honor cross for non-commissioned personnel that was affiliated with the Royal Hohenzollern House Order and should not be confused with the latter which went only to officers. Only 16 awards of the Members Cross with Swords were made during the war, with ten of them going to aviators."

Immo, I haven't checked on Festner yet, but I suspect he also may have been one of the 10 mentioned above in lieu of the HOH. Germany, and Prussia in particular, was very 'picky' about awards, and if you didn't qualify or weren't eligible for a certain award, you didn't get it. Period. That was why Germany instituted the Golden Military Merit Cross for non-commissioned personnel. They were not officers and as such COULD NOT win the Pour le Merite.

Sorry guys. Rick
Rick is offline  
Old 30 January 2004, 06:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Immo_Frese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,177
 
Rick,

your absolutely right with your statement about the HOH (Members Cross...) I stand corrected regarding Festner.

Immo
__________________
Nec aspera terrent!
Immo_Frese is offline  
Old 30 January 2004, 01:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
wingedwarrior
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Let the truth be known! Thanks for the added info Rick. Would you think that Lt. Buckler received this Honor Cross as well? Thanks Immo for straightening me out on Lt. Buckler and the HOH..

regards,

Darren
 
Old 30 January 2004, 05:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,843
 
Quote:
Originally posted by wingedwarrior@Jan 30 2004, 02:19 PM
[b] Would you think that Lt. Buckler received this Honor Cross as well?
A quick scan of the list doesn't seem in indicate that he did. R.
Rick is offline  
Old 31 January 2004, 12:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
wingedwarrior
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Thanks again Rick.

regards
 
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
max, ritter, mller


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alfred Müller Rob People 3 28 April 2007 12:46 AM
Lt. K. MÜLLER CNOCK People 4 23 March 2006 08:17 AM
Ltn Müller-Arles rammjaeger People 0 10 March 2005 05:15 AM
Ltn.d.R. Müller-Friedel Rick People 1 20 August 2003 12:55 AM
Who was Müller? Alan People 9 7 February 2003 10:54 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright ©1997 - 2013 The Aerodrome