Photos, April 21,1918.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Immo:
First of all, I am not challenging Ltn. Wentz's word. The same account is given in "Jagd in Flandern Himmel" by Bodenschatz. I think he mis-labeled the photograph, a very simple error.
I refer you to "von Richthofen's Flying Circus", page 56, photo 150. If you will check the camouflage streaking on the white tailed Fok.DR.I with the swastika you will find they are the same aircraft. The streaking was like finger prints, no two alike. This photo shows that the wing crosses have been modified with the cross fields over-painted. The date of the photo taken at LeChelle is 26 March 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[pmirl]

As for the wooden wheel block, if you recall Moritz had "wandered" too close to a moving prop and had a bit of his ear taken off. It would only make sense that after that incident, MvR would have had Moritz tied to something while the planes were flying. This would keep Moritz, and the aircraft safe. Could you imagine bringing in a DRI and suddenly this large dog who is excited to see his master return suddenly runs out onto the airfield and into the path of the plane? Would not be a pretty sight for dog or plane! I agree with Dan-San. It was probably taken well before April 21st. I don't have a good copy of the photo handy, but you might want to check and see if shows if Moritz has both full ears or not.

Paul

[CWatson]

Jan(AOK4),

When can we expect to see your scan? I am curious and excited to see it if it is a unpublished picture of 425/17.

Thanks,CWatson

[AOK4]

The picture will be shown when my article is ready (if anyone wants to publish it of course)...
I'm still not sure it is really MvR's plane on the pic. It's written on the back but this writing is from later. I need to do a bit of research first on the two planes shown.

Jan

[Immo_Frese]

Originally posted by pmirl@Jan 31 2004, 07:14 PM
[b] As for the wooden wheel block, if you recall Moritz had "wandered" too close to a moving prop and had a bit of his ear taken off.* It would only make sense that after that incident, MvR would have had Moritz tied to something while the planes were flying.

Paul,

read the story given by Wenzl and Bodenschatz! They are both clear in their statement. It was a joke. Wenzl and others played a trick on MvR when they tied the wheel block on Moritz tail.

"Richthofen-Flieger" by Wenzl, page 23:

"Richthofens Stimmung färbte auch auf uns ab. Alles war guten Mutes. Es wurde allerlei Unfug getrieben. Richthofen tat mit. Erst warf er mich - ich wollte gerade ein Duggerchen machen - von der Tragbahre herunter, dann die, die dasselbe versuchen wollten. Ich gedachte einige Aufnahmen zu machen und holte meinen Apparat. Ein Spaßvogel hatte inzwischen einen Bremsklotz mit einem langen Strick an Moritzens Rute gebunden. Richthofen rief "Moritz" - ein Satz, und das arme Viech schleppte den Klotz, ergeben in sein Schicksal, im Kreise herum. Diesen Augenblick benutzte ich zu zwei Aufnahmen. Es sind die letzten des Altmeisters."

Immo

[FliegerJG1]

Dear Forumites,

The photo of MvR, Moritz and the wheel chock is one of my favorites. The clearest version and least cropped I have seen of this appears in David Baker's " Manfred von Richthofen," on page 112. It's still really hard, at least for my eyes, to see Moritz's ears in the photo.

Am enjoying this thread....FliegerJG1

[Rod_Filan]

The first of the photos you mentioned. Unfortunately no wheel chock hiding in the grassy knoll in this one.
Nevertheless, what would rule this out as being taken 21 Apr 1918 ?

VBR
Rod

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

I hesitate to enter into this debate, but just FYI: I have examined the album of Ltn Oskar Rouselle in the Ferko collection at UTD, and examined it quite thoroughly. Rouselle was in Jasta 4 from July '17 to 10 Aug '17 (then WIA), then back in Jasta 4 from Feb 1918 to the EOW. His album contains many small private photos, but also larger ones which were printed up semi-officially for various JG I members. Both of the photos under discussion in this thread are in this album, and BOTH are captioned as having been taken on 21 April 1918. Rouselle was in Jasta 4 at the time; so that's 2 JG I members - Rouselle and Richard Wenzl - who believed they were taken then.

Dan, as far as the Iron Crosses on the Dr.I in the background of the photo of MvR, Moritz and Loewenhardt: check "Over the Front" Volume 17 No. 4, Winter 2002, pp. 308-309. At the top is a panoramic photo of JG I, with Dr.I's in the distance and two early Fokker D.VIIs on the right. I think you'll agree that the presence of the D.VIIs dates this photo as May or later, right ?? Well, the Fokker Dr.I in the middle of the photo STILL has iron crosses on complete white fields !! Since it has what appears to be a light-colored wheel disc and a light cowling, I think it's a Jasta 4 Dr.I. So not all Jagdgeschwader I Fokker Dr.I's had Balkenkreuze by April 21. It could be the Dr.I in the background of the photo of MvR, Moritz and Loewenhardt is a Jasta 4 Dr.I as Imrie says. On page 80 of his book, Imrie says that Jasta 4 received its first Triplanes on 20 April. I think some of these were fresh from the factory with the out-of-date iron crosses, although Jasta 4 also received some cast-off Triplanes from Jasta 6 and 11 when they received their D.VIIs in May.

Or I could be all wrong. Just food for thought.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Greg:
Check the streaking pattern on the two photos I referenced before, you will find them identical. It is impossible to paint two sets of wing with identical patterns. The photos are of the same airplane. Greg, I know you think highly of Alex imrie, I don't.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[pmirl]

Ok Rod, I'll bite. What rules it out?

Paul