Photos, April 21,1918.

retread · 29 January 2004, 08:58 PM

I can think of three photos of

Manfred von Richthofen which have been claimed by some to have been taken the morning of April 21, 1918. One in which he is playing with the dog Moritz while talking with Lowenhardt. One in which he is standing with his walking stick and conversing with a number of his pilots including his cousin Wolffram and Joachim Wolff. The last in which his is buttoning a heavy overcoat (wearing the fur boots he had on when killed) and being assisted by two enlistedmen in dressing during the final preperations before a flight. I am aware that at times the first two of the photos described have been credited with having been taken in March, 1918 at Lechelle airfield and not at Cappy at all. I am less familar with any arguments (pro or con) regarding the third.
Does anyone familar with these photos have an opinion regarding when they were taken and why?
Thanks

pmirl · 30 January 2004, 12:19 AM

Weldboy,

If this is the photo you speak of, it is obvious when you see the uncropped version that this wasn't taken on April 21st. The plane he is getting ready to get into isn't a tripe.

Paul

pmirl · 30 January 2004, 12:21 AM

MvR

retread · 30 January 2004, 01:49 AM

Absolutely, thats the third photo I described. Except...well... more. I have never seen the entire photo, just closeups of MvR and the two enlistedmen. Maltese crosses on what I assume to be the wing of an Albatross D.III or possibly a D.V.
No doubt, thats one eliminated. That narrows it down to two.

AOK4 · 30 January 2004, 01:53 AM

I have a scan of a picture of allegedly MvR's plane taken on the day he was killed. It comes from an airman who witnessed MvR's death. I'm making an article about this airman for C&CI or OTF, but I don't know when it shall be ready though as I have more urgent things to do for the moment.

Jan

Immo_Frese · 30 January 2004, 03:34 AM

The photo with Löwenhardt and his dog Moritz was taken by

Richard Wenzl and was first published in his book "Richthofen-Flieger" in the early 30'ies. I really think that the argument, that this photo was taken in March at Lechelle aerodrome is too much focused on the Iron Cross - Balkencross transition and completely blends out the story told by Wenzl.

Wenzl in his book longly tells the story of what happened on the morning of 21 Apr 1918. Of special interest is the joke MvR's comrades done with his dog Moritz. A wooden block was tied to Moritz' tail. The line and the block can clearly be seen in the photo.

IMO there is no doubt that this photo was taken indeed on the morning MvR was KIA.

Immo

Dan_San_Abbott · 30 January 2004, 07:14 PM

Immo:
I cannot agree that the photo taken of MvR, Moritz and Löwenhardt was taken on the morning of 21 April 1918. The white tailed Fok.Dr.I in the back ground has Iron crosses on white fields. By 21 April 1918, the cross form had gone through two alterations. The line-up photos taken at LeChelle on 26 March 1918 show clearly the all the Fok.DR.I machines were in the process of changing the crosses. I think this photo was taken at Awoingt Flughafen.
Blue skies,
Dan

Dan_San_Abbott · 30 January 2004, 07:21 PM

Pmirl:
This photo of MvR was taken when Jasta 11 was at Roucourt between 13 April and 9 June 1917. At that time, Jasta 11 were equipped with Alb.D.III aircraft.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

pmirl · 31 January 2004, 12:00 AM

Thanks Dan-San!

Paul

Immo_Frese · 31 January 2004, 02:28 AM

Dan San,

I don't think that the progress of changing crosses is the only way to determine the date of the mentioned photo. As far as I know all Fokker Triplanes were delivered with the out of date national insignia. Even new Triplanes that were delivered in April were so marked and were changed by the Jastas in the field.

Wenzl was there and he told his story. The book is very accurate concerning dates, losses, personnel and so on. Compared with other books written by german aces it has some historical source-value.

At the time he wrote the book many other Staffel-comrades were still alive. I never heard of any complaints from his former JG 1 mates that his story was nonsense...

Wenzl was later in close contact with Bodenschatz. Bodenschatz used Wenzls photo when he wrote "Jagd in Flanderns Himmel", the war diary of JG 1. Bodenschatz repeated Wenzl's story about the joke with Moritz and Bodenschatz too was a witness of the morning hours of 21 Apr 1918 at Cappy airfield. I don't think he would had written this, if it simply wasn't true.

Once more: the line with the wooden block which was tied to Moritz' tail is on the photo!

Immo